Richard Rohr: Rediscovering the Wisdom of Early Christianity

pray that I can say something that'll be helpful and not just ideas. I think uh we have a passion today for relevance for things that really are going to somehow help with the healing that our world needs on on so many levels. And probably you think I'm going to an unusual, obscure, maybe unnecessary place to begin talking about what we call collectively the desert fathers and mothers. Um, but the reason I chose to do that is first it is a part of my own lineage. And that'll become more clear maybe as we talk. But uh as I was preparing for this, I realized that it's more than that because it's really going to give you an example of how Christianity in its self-image has substantially changed. Uh almost so much so you'd call it a different religion. You know, several different religions to be perfectly honest. Uh and we especially in the west who always think we're looking out from the center uh we uh we're not aware of that because we think our story is the only story and what the early Christianity tells us not just in the desert fathers and mothers but also in the eastern fathers who were by and large neglected in western seminaries even though they developed for example the the theology of the trinity you know and gave it to us and developed a much stronger contemplative practice than the west ever did until our later mystics. Uh so just that I hope is already telling you we're going to go down a path that I think will open up some doors but will have a lot of practical pastoral implications. At least I would like to think so. Now if you've ever been a part of an institution or an organization or any corporate anything you know you have uh early on in your founding the laborious task of creating what we call vision uh philosophy and mission statements you know and there's whole organizations that just help you form vision philosophy and mission statements what struck me uh when I study the desert fathers and mothers is that it was all about well let me describe what we mean by the three of those first of all. By vision we'd mean goal, direction, big picture, philosophy, the why and the what at a maybe a little deeper level. And your mission statement is pretty much the how and how are we going to get this vision and philosophy message out there, you know? Well, if you look at the desert fathers and mothers, the surprising thing is is that they don't seem to be too worried about uh vision and philosophy. They just get to the how. It's very interesting. Uh it it's all practice-based. It's all lifestyle. Uh you know, the doctrine of the trinity has not developed yet in the early period. Uh there's no arguments among them about the divinity and humanity of Christ, the virginity of Mary, the eukarist, uh church order, bishops. They're gracefully free from all of that, you know. And you could say, you could say, I don't know if you'll agree with me, but maybe they were able to get to the core because if you read the sermon on the mount, go back and read it after you've heard this. It's in entirely the how it's all about. Jesus isn't giving you a big theology. He's just telling you turn the other cheek and you know uh seek a kind of purity of heart that be that he calls poverty of spirit. It's all about inner practice that will allow you to experience the divine. We're not arguing about the divine. We're not trying to prove the divine. We're giving you ways of living that uh will allow you to experience that. Now, that's pretty good. You know, they're they're sort of the Zen Buddhist monks of the Christian tradition and and they emerge in all of the world religions. You you have the syasis if you've ever been to India. You have the sages of Confucianism. You have the the Buddhist monks of course uh the renunciates who and the hermits who always go apart. I gave a conference just this weekend and uh uh they gave me the strangest kind of introduction but I knew it was true. I I copied down what they said. Uh they said, "Richard, you are so irrelevant with your Franciscan vow of poverty and celibacy that has nothing to do with the way anybody lives anymore. Uh that you end up being strangely relevant." And I I said, "Well, I better try real hard to be relevant if I'm supposed to be." But I think they're on to something uh that when you're when you're not caught up in the production consumption uh worldview like I have nothing to gain by making money. It all goes to the Franciscans. You know, it's that isn't a motive. And we have wonderful Norbertines here tonight, a sister St. Joseph. So, and a brother, a Christian brother. So that was I think the real meaning of what what became the vow of poverty which to most people does make a bit of sense even to those of us who take it you know because we know we're not among the poor of the world at all we're usually quite comfortable but what I can say is structurally it moves you out of the world church world ideally but certainly social world of both production and consumption and so you're able to ask a whole different set of questions, you're able to pay attention to very, very different things. So, the desert fathers, I'm sure you've heard this before, the great father of monks is a man called Anthony H. Anthony the Great or Anthony of the Desert. He lives 100 years from about 250 to 350. And wouldn't you know it, right? Uh toward the the second half of his life is when uh the Christian religion begins to become domesticated. I don't know what other word to use when Constantine did us a great favor and made our religion in 313 or began to make our religion uh not just acceptable but in fact the imperial religion. And I'm sorry, but I got to say that changed everything. Uh-huh. Because we started reading the gospel uh not in the howway anymore, but simply a world view that would uh that would everybody could agree upon. I I had Vanessa put a few pictures together today. This is one of the Council of Nika. Now, the Council of Nika happens in 3:25. Do you want to note who's in the middle? That's the emperor. All right. Uh he's uh convening the council actually instigates it and enforces it by punishment if you don't agree with it. You know, and the bishops are in collusion with him. You might see, but I don't think most Catholics or Orthodox were ever told this. The first seven councils of the church were not convened by the church. They were convened by emperors. All right, I'm jumping ahead, but I want you to see how the the simplicity we're going to see in the desert fathers and mothers is quickly lost. Huh? When good old Constantine takes over and then very shortly they'll make a saint out of him. There's absolutely no evidence, I don't want to offend any people, but that this man is a saint if you read his biography. But uh in fact I looked up today just to shock you at the beginning. I wanted to find how many monarchs or kings or queens have been canonized saints. Do you want the number? And maybe they were. I don't know. But 61 kings or queens have been proclaimed to be canonized saints. And I'm sure they were nice people. You know I'm not here to put down any of them. But my assumption is that they they protected us. Do you understand? And if you protected our institution, well, you must be a saint. Do you understand? That's what Constantine did. Huh? And that set the whole tangent of what holiness is, what transformation is, what conversion is on a very different course than we're going to see. And I'm going to go back to the desert fathers and mothers. But they're not talking about being kings and queens. It gets worse. There's 61 monarchs who are canonized saints. And there are 52 princes and princesses, minor royalty. So we get over a hundred, you know, and if you look at them, almost every country in Europe is covered. Sooner or later, they all got their king or queen saint. Do you think there's any chance that politics got into that? Is there any possibility that this had to do with power and money uh and our alignment with power and money? Well, what we're going to see, and this is just a preface to getting into these guys and gals, here's a group of people who could care less about power and money and control and kings and queens. Not if you're a king or a queen, I don't mean to be offending you, but I'm going to read there. I I have collected here a number of books. There's many more than this on the desert, fathers and mothers, but uh from Gregory Mayor's book. I just want to read a few marvelous quotes that I came up with and they're always short little vignettes and I want to admit they're going to sound like Anthony Dlo stories. They're going to sound like Zen Buddhist stories. Uh, in fact, I'm going to go further. I bet to you well educated western thinking people they're going to sound naive u simplistic dangerous psychologically maybe not astute and and even highly open to misinterpretation but let's try them anyway they only have their effect at least for me and other people who've been students of them like Merin and Nan uh when you get you have to read a whole bunch of these vignettes and recognize these people are living in a different world and that's obvious to us. I mean historically but I want to say living in a different world spiritually uh too. Aba the the fathers of these little communities were called Aba which became the abbotts of the later monastic communities. We have an abbot in our room tonight. Huh? Aba Payman said to Aba Joseph, "Tell me, how can I become a monk?" And he replied, "If you want to find rest here and hereafter, say in every occasion, who am I?" And in the meantime, do not judge anybody else. There's his guidance for becoming a monk. Ask every moment, "Who am I?" And don't judge anybody else. I mean, isn't it just so simple? It's just silly. and and wonderful. It's so irrelevant that it's relevant. You understand? As you might know, uh uh Baron vonugal in his monumental study on on mysticism said that uh my own founder Francis uh had what he thought was the perfect prayer of a mystic. And in his early biographies, it is said that Francis would spend a whole night just saying, "Who am I and who are you?" And he would, that was his only prayer. Who am I and who are you? Speaking of of God and Vonugal says, you cannot get a better prayer than that. You can spend the rest of your lifetime asking that question. Who am I God? And who are you? But here we have Aba Payman saying that already in the third century then amma. So the women were amasma lectica. She said in the beginning there is struggle and there's a lot of work for those who come near to God. But after that there is indescribable joy. Sound like the first and second half of life. I hope it is just like building a fire. At first it's smoky and your eyes water, but later you get the desired result. Thus, we ought to light the divine fire in ourselves with early tears and effort. So, it's that that line, how do we put it later? Um, no one catches the wild ass by running after him, but only those who run catch the wild ass. that that trying doesn't earn God's love. But only those who try want it bad get it. You desire matters. And what all spirituality is doing is stirring the desire. Stirring the desire to make sure that you desire deeply and desire the right thing. I'm going to read a few more. Aba Marius who was in Egypt. Egypt was the biggest place that there are some that say that the villages of monks were larger than the ordinary villages. There were so many monks in Egypt. Uh and that was true because the dascese I don't know if they called it the dascese then of Alexandria uh would only ordain monks to be bishops. You could not. Now I think that has huge implications. Huge implications because it says uh bishops are not to be careerists. They're to be people who came to seek the Lord. And a man who came first of all to seek the Lord is the only man worthy to be a bishop. Oh, good stuff. Back to Macarius here. When Aba Macarius was in Egypt, he found a man with a mu mule stealing his belongings. Then, as though he were a stranger, he helped the robber to load the animal and peacefully sent him off, saying, "We have brought nothing into this world, and we can take nothing away with us. The Lord has given, and as he wished, so it has happened. Blessed be the name of the Lord." So, of course, quoting Job, the book of Job. Now, again, I'm sure you're all thinking, "Oh, that's unreal. Who of us would --- he woman. After praying, he made everyone leave and then he took the brother by the hand and he said, "Brother, be on your guard." And with this these words, he withdrew. Is that brilliant? Huh? Now, they're not all quite as inspiring as that. We'll read one or two more. One more. An old man was asked, "What is it necessary to do to be saved? He was making rope." And without looking up from the work, he replied, "You're looking at it." It's exactly what Merin says later. You know, when I uh drink water, I drink water. When I walk, I walk. When I talk, I talk. When you've come to the contemplative life, uh you don't have to go apart and do special holy lurggical things to pray. You don't. And that's shocking. I think it's one reason why the desert fathers and mothers uh were somewhat avoided in later history because they're not highly lurggical. There's not a lot of evidence of priesthood, sacraments, mass every Sunday or mass every day because the entire emphasis is upon seeking inner rest, inner quiet. Now that will merge into the eastern church which certainly was much more contemplative than the western church ever was for good and for ill. There's a there's a dark side to it, there's a good side to it. But uh if you've ever read that four volume set called the Filocalia, most Western seminaries never did. But it's nothing about the collection of all of the Eastern fathers teaching you and they sound like the Buddhists, you know, how do you keep your mind from obsessing and being angry and being lustful and being crazy, you know, and that was held in the East building on these guys and gals. But uh was never we got to be honest in the west was never the fort of the western church. Uh when our mystics did emerge our contemplatives emerged they were by and large marginalized to contemplative orders. And then when Mertton comes in the 50s and 60s and even tells them you don't even know the contemplative tradition anymore. He was not liked by his own community. And I experienced that personally when I was there because he pulled back the veil and said by and large the western church hasn't taught contemplation for 500 years. Ah now the older orders like the norbertines I'm sure we had easier access to it. Huh? But that doesn't mean we always taught it either. We confused being quiet or being an introverted personality with being a contemplative. And that just ain't true. My mother used to say, "Still water runs deep." People who are quiet can be thinking entirely negative thoughts, hateful thoughts, angry thoughts, vicious thoughts. But it doesn't mean they be, "Oh, she's so quiet. She must love Jesus." I don't know. I don't know how we made that leap that quiet people love Jesus. I'm defending myself because I'm an extrovert, as you can tell, you know. So, um, so what we see is that this early emphasis upon how is going to morph rather quickly into arguing about what and and uh whereas what they wanted to do was being faithful to practices that allow you to experience something. So then you didn't have to prove the what. All right? like we've spent 1500 years trying to prove the what. No, just quiet the the mind and the heart and the soul and you'll know for yourself. Do you understand? It's coming at it a completely different way than we are used to. Now, they concluded from what we can read in all these wonderful books of the desert fathers and mothers here. Here are their primary practices. Now, you're going to think they're too radical perhaps, but maybe this is why Christianity has become so superficial. I don't know. some necessary leaving of the systems of this world. That's the first one. And remember this this begins on on moss after 313 when we get in bed with the emperor and align Christianity with empire war and money and power. Uh this is when the exodus begins. Huh? Following Anthony and and they will not compromise what they heard in the sermon on the mount with this newly highly compromised Christianity where we are now living in the courts of the kings and the queens and stayed there for much of the next thousand years. So they felt you had to leave the systems of this world on some level. I think the reason we haven't had a strong teaching on social justice is because we didn't think we had to leave the systems of this world and we were profiting by and large from the systems of this world. Secondly, some degree of solitude. Now that's still counterintuitive, but again I mean chosen fruitful solitude, not just being an introvert and preserving your quiet time. maybe in fact a lot of solitude. Now I know those of you who are married and have children, you're saying, "Oh no, I don't know how to go there." And we'll get to that because I I think there's still a way because once you understand it's inner quiet that you're seeking. There are ways and disciplines and practices whereby you can maintain and seek inner quiet even with other people in the house, which is the way most of us live. Of course, the second morphs into the third, some degree of silence. So, not just solitude, but silence. They're not necessarily the same, of course. And in this space to learn to put both the mind and the passions, which was their word. Now, they don't mean sex primarily when they're talking about that. The passions are what we would call compulsive emotions. Same thing, right? And I think still my single big biggest selling CD is that one on emotional sobriety, isn't it? Or it was at least last year. It's because I think our our western culture just recognizes I don't know how to control my emotions. My emotions control me. I would say the vast majority of Americans I've met are controlled by their emotions. They they can't find their base, their ground, their foundation, their identity, their true self because they're just tugged and jarred and pulled moment by moment by excessive emotion. So that's what they meant by quieting the passions. Now that would include lust, but don't think of lust right away when you hear passion. So fifth, I think they concluded that this was all for the sake of creating a person capable of love and capable of community. Capable of love and capable of community. Without it, you end up with the individualistic Christianity we have today where uh people don't have to really don't have to be loving, don't have to be capable of creating neighborhood or community. They just have to believe things. That's all. Just believe things. Do you you do know believing things asks nothing of you. But but we've been there for much and I'm going to tell you how we got there in a minute. So what would prompt so many people to move to Palestine, Egypt, Capidoshia? Capidoshia is eastern Turkey and Syria. They wanted both freedom and inner peace at whatever price. at whatever price. So their final message in effect becomes that the search for God I think must be an absolutely primary goal. It can't be just, oh yeah, let's think about God a little bit, let's go to church on Sunday. Let's read a book now and then, you know, but that that remember in uh moral theology, we used it back in the 60s, maybe they still do, we spoke of the fundamental option, fundamental option theology was real good stuff, moral theology. Well, I think these guys and gals made their fundamental option very clear, huh? My life is a search for God and everything else is secondary to that. And that's why they clean the lens of of religious life of of uh where where again priesthood itself so often became and Pope Francis is saying this almost every other week and we all know it's true that priesthood became careerism the seeking of roles in the church not necessarily the search for God uh it became career instead of vocation as we would put which prostitutes everything. So I if if the search for God which is the first line of the Benedict and rule by the way you know uh that Benedict already sees this anybody can be accepted if they're genuinely searching for God but that that got lost in a lot of ways especially when the church became so comfortable that to have a role in the clergy was in fact three steps upward in social class. So, join the Franciscans and see the world. Take a vow of poverty and in fact be extremely comfortable. Something got turned all around. You didn't There were too many perks after a while. But we're going to give you the history how we got there. Where I was move where I was moving toward was that this practice-based lifestylebased non ideological Christianity that we see in the desert fathers and mothers it it was in a certain degree naive. It couldn't stay there. We had to define what's this father son and holy spirit. What are these seeming two parts of Christ human and divine? So we had to evolve to higher levels of consciousness, theology. But before we leave the desert, fathers and mothers, I want to give you something uh that for me was very helpful. And again, I learned it from a man you hear me quote very often, Ken Wilbur. Ken Wilbur makes a again a brilliant distinction between stages and states. And uh let me define them quickly and then you'll see how it applies here. Your stage is where you are in your own personal maturation, exposure, education awareness of of culture, of history, of language. Uh it's how much you've grown up. Put it that way. That's your stage of consciousness. Now your state of consciousness is frankly to put it in the most simple way if you're totally dualistic you're at the lower stage. If you're totally unitive where you see things not in binaries but in holes you're a mystic frankly that would be the highest state. Now this you this is going to have immense implications. In fact, it might even help you understand Jesus. You know, when we preachers, there's one particular gospel that we preachers hate to preach on, and I bet you know what it is. When our precious Jesus seems to call this woman, this poor Serenician woman, a dog. Oh my god, Jesus, were you having a bad day or what? What is going on? Well, we see that even though his state was unitive consciousness 99% of the time, he must have had a bad day that day. And he re on the bad day, we all regress to our cultural lowest level of staging. And there we can give very prejuditial responses, very angry responses. You've all done it. and you say, "My gosh, I'm out of character." But actually, it still reveals where sometimes home base still is. Now, thank God in that particular story, Jesus apologizes, admits he's wrong and the woman's right. And maybe that's why we have the gospel story to allow Jesus in a patriarchal culture to apologize to a woman and to tell her she is right. So, it ends up being a very good story. But uh I think those of us in the Catholic Church for example who've been raised on lives of saints and then sometimes we go to read some of them and we say you know I think she's a little neurotic or I'm not sure I could imitate her in all these ways. I want to say that because uh your stage and your state don't always uh align at the same time. Your important thing is your state. H so there can be people I remember reading Bernard of Clairvo he wrote a commentary on the Song of Songs very mystical erotic beautiful lovely and then you read his life he's anti-Semitic and he's anti-Muslim and it's like oh I don't know if I like him well he I believe he was a unitive state person but he was still 11th century Frenchman you and this is going to help you understand half the saints you've ever heard of. Huh? Now, why am I saying that in this context? The desert fathers and mothers. So, when you read these lovely little sayings, don't turn them off too quickly. Huh? Try to discern what state they're coming from. And don't hate them because they're first, second, third century stage. They haven't yet experienced the Enlightenment or the Renaissance. All right? They haven't gone to Oxford University like you have. Huh? They haven't learned several languages. So, uh, I just want to throw that in. I think they're going to put that online in a few weeks because many people find this solves so many of their problems, not in just understanding yourself, being patient with those around you that there can be very holy people. Uh, what what is it the alcoholics say? Halts. hungry, angry, lonely, tired, stressed. Huh? That if you're in one of those states, every one of you in this room, you'll probably revert back to a low stage. And you're ashamed of y --- lemagne the emperor of the West now. And wouldn't you know, within a few years, dear old Charlemagne, uh, do you think he had any interest? But of all things, he imposes on the Western church what we call the Apostles Creed. All right? That's the first time we find it in the form that we know today. That doesn't make it wrong. I'm not here to throw out the Apostles Creed. It's nice, but but I still want to show you there's no how here whatsoever. There's no how here whatsoever. It's all what it's highly theological cosmological visionary. I believe in God the Father Almighty. I'm just going to point out a few things. Uh that he uh it's defining who God is. Uh and I want you to note what you probably wouldn't have known. Look after the word Mary. Do you see I put two little brackets there around that comma. That's called the huge comma. Now, you wouldn't think we'd make that much of commas, but um the reason it's called the huge comma is note that in the apostles creed, they have absolutely nothing to say about the entire life or teaching of Jesus. We skip in one line from born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried. Huh. Uh it's what's happened is there's actually little interest in his teaching. The sermon on the mount is not quoted in papal documents for centuries. Huh? We're not interested in the how. We what the emperor wants to align the empire on is the what. And this is a nice what statement. Let's all believe in God the father almighty, creator of heaven and earth. And and we if you going to have an empire, you got to all align around one God. Jesus became our God figure. He suffered under Pontius Pilate, crucified, died, and was buried. and descended into hell. Now, I want to stop right there. I would never have the courage to say this if I hadn't read, yes, Pope Benedict the 16th. And now Pope Benedict, God bless him, is no raging liberal. All right, but in his commentary on the Apostles Creed, he said it, don't hate me, he said, "What does it mean that Jesus descended into hell and it's in the Apostles Creed?" Oh, what it means is there's no hell anymore. The Pope said that. Check it out. Read it. Don't believe me. And this was roundly believed in the early church. It was called the harrowing of hell, held by at least twothirds of the eastern fathers of the church, but not the western fathers. That's the church you were born into, Catholic or Protestant. It was called apocalypostasis, universal salvation. God was saving all of creation. Now, this starts with the Hebrew scriptures. It's pretty clear all the covenants are with Israel. They're with the collective. They're with the whole. They're not with individuals. This individualization of the gospel that you and I in this room and online that we take for granted. It it's a it's been a thousand-year decline. It's about all Protestantism, no offense, but uh all Protestantism ever heard of was individual salvation. How do I go to heaven? You know, and how do we keep individuals from hell? Any corporate notion of God is saving creation, God is in love with the world, that we're all swept up in this massive joy of God, and we're all saved by mercy. We're all saved by grace. That was a treasure of the Eastern Church. And in 1054, I'm jumping ahead again. I know this is feeling like leapfrog, but in 1054, isn't this nice? The patriarch of Constantinople and the Pope mutually excommunicate one another. And basically, we stopped talking to one another for a thousand years. That's no exaggeration. We didn't study them and they didn't study us. Anyway, back to the Apostles Creed. You're getting the point. He's seated at the right hand of God the Father Almighty. Do you notice we've repeated Father Almighty twice? Huh? We're uh we're preoccupied with power. We want to show who's got the power. Jesus has come to talk about powerlessness. He's redefined power. That's what the meaning of the cross. But we're not interested in some suffering, losing, bleeding Jesus, God. And and you look at the art at this period, it's all panto great big go to the Basilica. No offense if you live in Washington, but uh look at the great apps in the Basilica of the Immaculate Conception in Washington DC. This isn't Jesus anymore. It's God the Father. the Father Almighty, I might say, which is gratuitously repeated twice in the Apostles Creed. Now, you note the word love is not found in the entire text. You might think that would have something to do with the creed, wouldn't you? Something to do with the belief of Christians, you know, but we're not talking about how is my point. How is not important. The word love is not found in the Apostles Creed. It's not found in the Nyine Creed. Now, to give you hope, Pope Francis has already set in motion. He says, "I'm going to be dead by then." But in the year 2025, we will celebrate the 1700th anniversary of the council of Nika, which is 3:25. And he said, "I want to reconvene a true ecumenical council back in the east where it all started." You know, four of the councils of the church are in Constantinople. two are in Nika. All of the first eight are in the east because the church is all happening in the east, not over here. We're falling apart, you know. Uh and Pope Francis has the foresight to want to go back to where we defined the two natures of Christ at Nika and say, "But now we're going to have the East and the West and the Protestants and really for maybe the first time in history be a truly ecumenical council." Oh my god. I hope I live. I don't think I'll live that long, but wouldn't that be nice to see that? Na is like a a little ways out of Istanbul or Constantinople. So, back to this. Seated at the right hand of God the Father Almighty. From there, he will come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church. The communion of saints was not in the old oh excuse me was not in the oldest text but that seems to have been remember I love to talk about three steps forward and two steps backward I would call that an advance both the harrowing of hell and the putting of I believe in the communion of saints now we call it the force field of love or quantum energy that unites people in love uh now as I told you good old Charlemagne uh the emperor, the new emperor. There he is. He's now been made a saint. Isn't that nice? Now that's Charlemagne in the middle, you know, and God is putting the crown on him. Not the pope. Now go and the church is deferring to him. My only point is we have moved from a religion of how and practice and lifestyle and simplicity to an imperial religion. And the art will reflect this. For those of you who are students of art like Vanessa, uh, someone should just do the history of Christian art and see how we move from Jesus the good shepherd and Jesus the crucified. Now, we still do the crucified Jesus, but he's now the substitutionary atonement transaction. It's not really the the one in solidarity with the soul the way uh we would understand it. So uh the the gifts that I believe the desert fathers and mothers gave us and that were in my opinion better held in the eastern church because that was where it was all happening uh were first of all the emphasis upon practice and seeking inner states of rest and quiet and peace which eventually we called contemplation. I think their belief in apocatasis universal salvation and we can document that. How many of the teachers of the east believed in universal salvation which you say to westerners now I mean some of you well not you but you're going to write to the bishop and say Richard's a heretic. I'm sorry I'm not a heretic if you know the bigger tradition. This was older than the later belief system where we created this reward punishment system as John Sweeney says having much more to do with Dante's divine comedy than the true biblical revelation. So we got our work cut out for us. uh the other aspects that I think were were really taught well it's no surprise that in Capidoshia uh emerges the doctrine of the trinity which has been largely ineffective or unpastorally presented. It had no practical effects. The western church was the practical church, the missionary thrust and that was our gift. Uh it it we were much more dynamic than the Eastern Church. But the Eastern Church was much more contemplative for good and for ill. In all fairness, there's very little missionary thrust in the Orthodox churches. Almost none. Almost none. If I go, I'm reminded that I'm Catholic and I'm not welcome. I'm not at all welcome. Huh? And I know we've hurt them, but you see how we've all I'm just trying to show I'm not saying one side's good and one side's bad. Both sides had a gift and both sides had a dark side. Our very outward thrust kept us from depth and in integration. I think their inner thrust was only appreciated by and large in the monasteries and with a high percentage of Orthodox people who I think in participating in their mystical liturgies I think did become little mystics. But I remember the year before I stopped traveling when I traveled in Romania, I was giving a retreat for the uh jail chaplain of all of Europe and we gathered in this beautiful Romanian Orthodox monastery, you know, and uh saw all these lovely dressed monks in singing and chanting and ringing bells and gongs and all day. I said, "Oh my god, this is beautiful, you know, let's run in the church." And as soon as I tried to enter, I told I'm not welcome, you know. And then as soon as the women joined me, they said women are not welcome, you know. And when women would enter the room, they would literally leave the room rather than be in the room. These were monks, you know. So you see how we all have a huge capacity for missing the point. And I'm just saying this because I am praising the Eastern Church, but I want you to know they have their dark side, too, just as we do. And I get plenty of chances to point out the dark side of the Western church. But I I I'm trying to be fair and to say we get it, we lose it, we get it, we lose it. But until we've come to the transformation that we talk about so much here at the center, I think every group, every denomination, every era is going to pull it down into an egocentric level into some little way to seek my private superiority instead of to care about the world and to care about the suffering of the world. So if it's true what bead griffiths and other others have said that the entire eastern world in Asia is the other hemisphere of the brain I do think we're in a wonderful era where the two hemispheres can listen to one another maybe for the first time and isn't any accident really that that just geographically look at a map of the world we have a woman from Jordan here Where is Jesus? Right on the cusp between east and west. And we now know that the Aramaic language that he spoke, have you heard Aramaic ever? Yeah. >> Well, close to yours. Yeah. Uh is much closer to a Semitic Eastern language than it would ever be a Greek-based Western language. But we're the first people who can see all this that is that it's coming together humiliating us. But also I hope and that's my hope in giving this talk is to give you hope that we're living in a marvelous time where I hope whatever I've said here is not going to make you make you hate Constantine or Charlemagne or or the Apostles Creed or or anybody. We don't have time for that. We don't have time for that. I'm sure people living a hundred years from now will say, "Well, Richard really missed it on three or four major points." you know, probably more than that. So, uh, let's just stop at that. But I hope this opens up some interest in the the classic texts of the Eastern Fathers. And as I started to say before, it was they who opened up the mystical understanding of the Trinity. But as Carl Roner said, that was largely undeveloped in the West. He even went so far as to say that we could drop the doctrine of the Trinity tomorrow. the very shape of God, which you think is the the template for all of reality. And Roner says we could drop the doctrine of the trinity tomorrow and 98% of Christian practice would remain untouched and unchanged. So this is where we want to go back to our contemplative roots, our mystical roots and our bridgebuilding roots. By the way, one other thing I should say, the title that we Catholics give to the pope or the pope took to himself --- pascal mystery that you you can live in solidarity with the suffering of the world which I know I I have to fight cynicism every day. Every day I just get so cynical about the church and the world and myself all together. It's all one big cynicism, you know, one big sadness, one big disappointment. But I I felt on my better days, I didn't go here intentionally. I was led here. And and I'm holding not just Richard's insufficiency and and you know, poverty, but I'm holding it for the whole world. If you see these inner states as an opportunity for solidarity, both the the death and the resurrection, when you are able to truly enjoy something and experience happiness, if you can consciously live in union with those who today are enjoying union at whatever level uh and draw from them and send to them, I think that's the full spiritual Christian path to that were saved by the death and resurrection and to live in solidarity with both and to know that we don't live there alone. The individual cannot carry the suffering alone. The individual cannot carry the resurrection alone. We carry it together. I hope I hope that's an answer. >> Another question from Trish. What do you mean exactly by do not judge? And how do you differentiate between judging the person and judging the action? According to Aba Pman, >> you know, uh I don't know that I'm right on this, but I've been using in recent years instead of the word judge because it is so consistently misconstrued and misunderstood. And yet the Buddha says it, Jesus says it, both of them in several places, most spiritual teachers sooner or later will will say something comparable. I think what they're trying to say, and stay with me, is do not label. All right? In other words, when your mind attaches a definitive meaning to something, you're trapped and you've trapped the other party or the other person or the other event. When you label things, you close them down. There's no ongoing revelation possible. This is good. This is bad. This is right. This is wrong. And I've found to a lot of groups that I gave more extended retreats to when I would say do not label, everybody got it. And yet we have to all admit we all label. So it's not getting you off the hook. You still have your inner work to do to stop labeling things Catholic, Protestant, black, white, gay, straight. Just stop it. Just stop it. Right? The contemplative mind doesn't do that. It doesn't. Now, that's work. But it just, as I love to say, image of God, image of God, image of God, image of God, image of God, image of God, image of God. I don't care if you're Catholic, Protestant, Jew, Hindu, image of God. You know, now that would be totally refined seeing. So, I hope that's an answer. >> Yes. >> Two related questions. one from Diana in Texas about parenting and one from Siguna Mueller uh about pain. You mentioned having advice for for parents and busy people. Can you return to that and share advice for how we can hold the silence and for those in pain and chronic physical pain? How can they achieve that higher state of contemplative awareness and union? >> Okay, so two questions there. Silence. Well, what we see like in the sermon on the mount, what we see in the filia and the eastern fathers is this whole recognition that it begins with the mind. That's what every contemplative knows that if you don't nip it in the bud, I have that quote, I hope I can remember it in breathing underwater. Uh, watch your your mind, it becomes your words. Watch your words, they become your actions. Watch your actions. They become your behavior. Watch your behavior becomes your character. Watch your character becomes your destiny. If you don't nip it in the bud once you're at the level of action, you're blind. And so that's why the contemplative, it's not to make introverts out of you, but it's to make you vigilant to recognize you can't walk down the street thinking negative thoughts. You can't. I'm sorry. or you will soon be a negative person. And you know, we got away with it because it was so hidden. No one knows what we're thinking. I said, uh, for many years, the worst possible torture I could conceive of would be if I had a neon sign on my head showing everybody what I'm really thinking. And you know, that would be torture for you, too. Huh? Cuz we can cover up and we put the smile on and the gracious. Oh, your lovely dress you're wearing today. And what you're really thinking is it's different than that. Now when we don't do that anymore, but it really uh can begin with a primal yes, that's what I try to work for every day. Then you'll find inner silence. Um, you know, uh, many have said that peace of mind, the phrase peace of mind in, although most languages use that phrase, it's an oxymoron because when you're in your mind, you're almost never at peace. When you're at peace, you're never just in your mind. And so, you have to make sure the mind is not in its usual antagonistic mode. That's what it comes down to. The mind prefers to argue. The mind prefers to accuse. The It gives you a sense of false superiority to someone else. When you can judge, look how stupid she is. Look how wrong he is. You know, when you can stop doing that, that's what we mean by inner silence. And that's why it has nothing as such to do with outer silence. You can be in a very noisy place and be living out of yes. Do you understand? You can be in a hermitage at the Norbertines and be thinking negative, hateful thoughts. You know, so that that's why this this false distinction. I've got to have a quiet place. It does help at certain times. We do need it. Now, in regard to pain, the question was was what, Joelle? U >> how do people with chronic pain >> chronic pain? Oh, I'm glad I heard >> achieve higher levels of consciousness or stages >> of development. >> I've always asked God not to give me that. I don't know how I I I got to tonitis about six years ago and it took me a full year to accept it and that's nothing approaching chronic pain but just the constant this ear is ringing right now. Now I've learned to accept it and I don't fight it. And once I stopped fighting it and hating it and saying why me now, feeling sorry for myself, now it doesn't bother me so much. But that's just my little piece of chronic pain. And so I've often asked what do people do who really every night? No, I will not sleep the eight hours. You know, I I don't know. I mean we we all know that this generation has medicines available to take away some of the pain. But what did most of history do? Maybe this is why they had to become contemplatives because contemplation is an exercise in letting go in surrendering your compulsive thinking. And what we learned and what religions have learned at the higher levels is that almost all thinking is compulsive thinking. So don't think, "Oh, she's an obsessive compulsive." No, you all are. You all, every one of you in this room, I don't mean to offend you. You are obsessivecompulsive. You think the same damn thing, and I'm using the word damn intentionally over and over and over again. And it's useless. It's useless. And once you are properly humiliated by that, and I'm trying to humiliate you, then you'll want to let go of it. And you'll want to move beyond it. So honestly, true contemplation is the best practice. I know when I do have trouble sleeping at night, I have to go to prayer because there I've learned how to let go. There I've learned how to surrender. So get a good contemplative teacher like Thomas Keading who who will teach you letting go. Now some instead of letting go exercise, they practice replacement therapy. uh the world community for Christian meditation and other groups they have that you replace the obsessive compulsive thought with Lord Jesus have mercy or just Jesus or whatever your sacred word is and I know when I'm more into my pain whatever my pain is very often it's only replacement therapy that works do you understand so there's letting go therapy surrendering let go of that thought I'm not going to indulge it. But sometimes when when it's just forcing itself on you, try replacement therapy. That's how the Jesus prayer emerged again in the east where people would would make it their prayer the whole day. So it became almost simultaneous with their very breath and and their breath was a constant inhaling and exhaling of union with God. The Yahweh prayer which I've taught for some years is is the same. >> Thank you. >> Sure. >> Another quote from a desert mystic Ephraim the Syrian >> Ephraim paraphrases Matthew 18:20. Where two or three gather in my name, there I am with you. Ephraim says, "Where one gathers in my name, there I am with you." Are these words not scandalous or rebellious when we relate them to the Christian communal and lurggical life? where one gathers in my name. I wish I could see the context because I have a suspicion. Now I'm might be 100% wrong that could he be talking about gathering in oneness in integration in wholeness? That'd be my suspicion. Uh because Ephraim the Syrian is the great creator of lurggical chants and songs. He was a great liturgist. So just as you said, it would surprise me that he would a and yet the monk in his cell tried to seek the oneness there which would allow him to bring the oneness to the lurggical celebration. So what I know of Ephraim the Syrian, I would think in all of his writings he'd say both. But I first of all have to plead ignorance about that precise text or context. Sorry. Um, for those who want more on this theme of the desert fathers and mothers and the early fathers of the Eastern Church, Father Richard's upcoming daily meditations in just a couple weeks, we'll explore this in greater depth. So, there have been a couple questions about other texts you would recommend to read or um the the trinitarian theology. We'll touch more on that in the day of meditations. Watch for those. But you wanted to introduce those. You know, just a few of these that I had. Gregory Mayor's book. He's a redemptrist. He ran the retreat house here in Amarillo, Texas. Listen to the desert. The classic by Benedict Award. I think she's an Anglican uh woman religious. The sayings of the desert fathers. This is a rather complete collection. I think they're even put in alphabetical order. Uh this is a very new one. The wisdom of the desert fathers and mothers put out again by the Anglicans the pariclete press in uh east coast. This is Thomas Merton's classic the wisdom of the desert. And he as in his marvelous introduction here really makes them uh you know gospel radicals, social justice radicals uh prophets in many ways and I think very fairly so. It's uh it's exciting reading as Mertin always is. than Henry Nan and as Henry was want to do, you know, makes them more psychological but in a way that very much speaks to uh I think 21st century western people because because we are psychological whether you know it or not when you hear a psychological explanation for some reason you're intrigued because it connects with your own psyche. Then this a wonderful scholar who taught at Loyola Marry Mount Douglas Burton Christi a friend of mine actually scripture and the quest for holiness in early Christian monasticism. A little more scholarly but brilliant scholarship. Uh there are certainly more but these are the ones I could quickly find in my own library. And uh but again before you go toward them be prepared to often be disappointed. Do you understand? that you're going to say that's naive or that's impossible or that's unreasonable or no one really lives that way and you are half right but you're half wrong. All right, that they're they're so irrelevant that they're relevant. So, thank you. Thank you very much. >> Thank you, Father Richard. >> Thank you, Joel. >> Just a couple announcements before we say goodbye for the evening or the morning or the afternoon wherever you are in the world. Uh we do have a couple more webcasts with Father Richard this year. August 18, Richard Roar joins Mirabby Star talking about Eastern spirituality. December 15, the Living School faculty including Cynthia Bour and James Finley will be talking about Thomas Merin with Father Richard. Thank you again for your patience. We will see you at the replay which will be very good quality and we wish you all the best as you journey deeper in this mystical wisdom. >> Good evening. So, thank you and thank you all here on site. Thank you