A past-life regressionist asks Lucille about reincarnation. He distinguishes the body from consciousness and suggests that consciousness 'in-consciousnesses' successive bodies and minds rather than transmigrating through them — a localized experience rather than a continuous traveler.
Transcript
I am curious to know your thoughts about the nature of reincarnation. There's no beginning, no end. I am a past life regressionist and I've been doing that for quite some time, but I feel like I'm in conflict because of my studies for the past couple of years. My interpretation of the teachings from non-duality teachers, sometimes I feel like there is no beginning, there's no end. There have been no other true past experiences, it's just... or is it just consciousness having a localized experience called me in the 1800s, me in year 3060, which of course is through time and space. So part, I feel sometimes when people come to me and they want to experience themselves back into a past life or a future life or in another realm, dimension, galaxy, cosmos, I'm I try to meet my clients where they're at, but I sometimes I feel like a fraud because in this I don't know mind, none of us know. So, I guess my again my question is just what are your thoughts on reincarnation? What I thought I believed, I question everything and... Well in order to answer your question, I need to understand your question. Okay. And in order to understand your question, I need for you to clarify two points for me. Number one, what is it that reincarnates? Number two, what is the definition of reincarnation? Can you answer these two questions? What do you mean by reincarnation? And what is it? In fact, it's only one question I have. What do you mean by reincarnation? And then as you define reincarnation, make sure that you clarify for me, what it is that reincarnates. What reincarnates is consciousness knowing itself through contemplation of an experience, is how I understand it to be. How...well I used to believe it to be and so this experience I'm having right now is called Lorie, I might have had another experience... Okay you answered the question, 'what reincarnates?' is consciousness right? Yes. What does reincarnate mean? To have a conscious awareness of another experience. I keep going back to that. But that's what awareness does for a living so to speak, right? Awareness has conscious experience of stuff. Yes. So, then yes, consciousness reincarnates from moment to moment. And from sentient being to sentient being. Yeah. I've answered my own question. But it's very different from saying I was Napoleon or Julius Caesar in a past life, right? No. Because as consciousness, you have been Napoleon, Julius Caesar, Hitler and all the billions of people and all the billions of sentient beings. So you are not just Julius Caesar or Napoleon, right? Right. You are... you are everything. But even that, the word to reincarnate assumes implicitly that if consciousness reincarnates, it means that consciousness goes inside a new body, right? Incarnate, to be in the flesh, to go inside. And that is kind of predicated upon the belief that consciousness is in our body. That consciousness is incarnated right now, in this incarnation called Francis or...right? Right. But if we ask more deeply ourselves, what does this mean? What does it mean? Is it my experience that I, whatever it is that perceives this body, is inside this body? What does it mean? I can understand if I ingest a banana, the banana goes inside my body, right? That's clear because I can see it coming in. But in order to make the statement that consciousness in is in the body, as I said yesterday, it's like the tea in the cup. I have to see the body, I have to see consciousness, I have to see consciousness inside the body. Yeah. It's not our experience. So to say... our experience is that at some point, our body appeared to our consciousness. So it's not really incarnation. It's not that consciousness gets incarnated in the body, but it's rather that the body gets 'in-consciousnessed', you know, 'in-consciousnessing' meaning the parallel or the opposite of incarnating, right? It gets 'in-consciousnessed'. The body gets... the world gets 'in-consciousnessed' at some point when we become aware of the world. The mind gets 'in-consciousnessed' when we have a thought. The body gets 'in-consciousnessed' when we have a bodily sensation. The world gets 'in-consciousnessed' when we have a sense perception. So, it would be okay to say that it seems that consciousness incarnates itself from moment to moment in all sentient beings. It's an approximation that makes sense. But in all of them, not just in Julius Cesar and Francis Lucille, although I have some Italian roots, but it doesn't mean that I am an incarnation of... You know what I was funny that people who get reincarnated, you know, they never get reincarnated as John Doe. It's not prestigious enough, you know. It's always... Grandiose. Always a consequential reincarnation, right? Yeah. I've had clients ask me this question over and over and over again, and I'd like to share the question and my answer and just get your thoughts on that and that will conclude my... Don't worry if we have time. Go ahead. Okay. So I will have clients that, when they drop down into that very deeply somnambulistic beta brainwave state where the egoic conscious mind can kind of fall to the wayside, and they're able to tap into their inner knowing better, as is, as is can be the case through perhaps meditation also. And they will again have these clear descriptive experiences or as they call remembrances of being a dragon, being Hitler, what have you. Or they will start speaking Japanese and they've never spoken Japanese before, quite fluently and they're astounded that they're speaking these foreign languages. Sometimes they will call it the Star language, that is very unfamiliar to human language, but all different types of experiences and they ask me how am I able to...where am I tapping into all of this? And my response, because this has been my understanding, is they're tapping into this universal consciousness of all experiences. Yes, I mean there are phenomena that are not easily, that cannot be easily explained by current science. Yeah. That's obvious. Although also it remains to be seen often whether when people go in some kind of trance and they speak certain language, it would be interesting to have this verified by someone who actually speaks Japanese or whatever language they are speaking because they can be delusional. They can, they can be in this condition almost certain that they are speaking Japanese where in fact they are saying...you know? And I can... clients confirm that with a Japanese speaking person and they got the interpretation, you know of what or, you know, the description of what they were saying because they wanted to understand. And so it seems to be legitimate. And so... That's an interesting an interesting occurrence that, that... You know there are phenomena that are not explained by the current science. I mean, we don't we don't have a good explanation for dark matter or the acceleration of the expansion of the Universe. There are many things... you know there are and as Shakespeare used to say, "There are more things in heaven in earth, Horatio, than in your philosophy". So it's a... there is a big, big unknown out there and we only have access to it through a very, very tiny window of the mind and yeah there are phenomena like that in which it seems that we tap into something that Carl Jung defined as the collective in conscious or whatever, you know. The realm of archetypes. Right. And the question... Yeah there are other form of existence than matter, and there are forms of existence where perhaps time doesn't elapse. The world for instance of mathematical ideas. Let's say the number pi. Let's assume that in a distant galaxy there is an intelligent species even brighter than us, much brighter than us, and they have come to develop mathematics because they live on a planet very similar to ours. And they started with the geometry and you know trying to measure the area of their fields, you know. And they have developed that, and so that they have developed a geometry on their own. And of course, calculating the area of a circle. They are smart remember, they have come up with the number pi. Now where did that come from? Because the number pi doesn't exist anywhere in nature. You see? There is not a a perfect circle in nature. So the number pi exists only, as far as we know, in human minds. But it it's clear to me that in the case, in the hypothetical case, of this extraterrestrial they wouldn't have come up with a different value for the number pi. You know it will still be 1... .14159 [3.1459...] etc. It will still be the same the same value exactly the same. So the question is, because it was discovered by two species who never had connected with each other, because they were separated too much right? And why did they come up with the same number, with the same thing? The only reasonable explanation is that it existed somewhere and it was discovered by one and by the other you see? So what kind of existence do mathematical ideas have you know? And it's a different world, if you will, to which we have access when we do mathematics and we understand each other we have access to this realm. And there are other elements like that... serendipities, coincidences that are too far-fetched to be a coincidence. You know the story of Carl Jung who, whom you know. I don't know in English the name of this insect, scarab, scarab? Oh scarab. Scarab. Yeah. So he was having a session with one of his patients. And this patient, she tells him that a dream she had of a scarab, a golden scarab that appeared in her dream. And this type of scarab didn't really exist on this place of the Earth, you know, in Europe, wherever it was. And as she says that, there is an insect on the window trying to get out. And Jung goes there and it was a golden scarab or a scarab of exactly this type. You know, that's an extraordinary synchronicity. You see, so there are all kinds of events that cannot be accounted for in any reasonable fashion using the... not only the current scientific knowledge, but even using the current rational assumptions of science as a whole you see? So we could call them almost extra-scientific or... so I'm not denying this, right? The point however is this. Who cares? Yeah. You see? It depends how we take these events. Who cares about whether I am a reincarnation of Julius Caesar and all of a sudden I start saying... It's just my Italian roots, right? It doesn't... what does it give us? Okay, fine. That exists. You know, America exists, the new world exists, Mars exists. There are all kinds of things to be discovered. But that doesn't answer the fundamental question about: what's the goal of life, what's the meaning of life, where do we come from, where are we going, what am I, what is happiness? You see? What is peace? What is death? These fundamental questions are not answer by any of these stories. They are interesting in so far that they tell us that is there is something deeper in the background, you see? That there is... it's kind of it's kind of God playing hide and seek with us. You know it's like Krishna playing with the Gopis. We are the Gopis and Krishna is consciousness playing with us. It's interesting what I hear predominantly over the years, in the hundreds of clients that I've seen, and I only see people one time. And it's so interesting to me that I will hear almost verbatim, the description of who we are is, we're simply source consciousness. And we are they... I hear, scratch off the word human and replace it with experiencer. You simply came here to have experiences, simply for the fact to have the experience but to also remember who you are and to continue walking in that for the rest of the days of your life to the best degree that you can. So we are just experiencers. We are not experiencers. We are the only experiencer there is because there is only one experiencer. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I believe now. And so I'm questioning all of this because of what I am learning and perhaps remembering myself. But thank you so much. I'm very grateful. Thank you for your questions.