Gregory Aldrete: Polybius on Why Civilizations Rise and Fall

[Music] hello and welcome to another episode of after  skool my name is Greg aldrete and I'm a history   Professor who studies ancient Greece and Rome  today we'll be exploring the theories of the   ancient Greek historian pus who wrote about  why civilizations rise and fall as well as   what explains the astonishing success of  the Roman Republic so let's get started.   is every civilization doomed to rise but then  inevitably fall? is there some ideal form of   government that will allow a civilization to  avoid collapse? how can we explain why some   civilizations flourish and expand While  others stagnate or are easily conquered?   these are vital questions that humans have  pondered for thousands of years and they   remain urgently relevant today they were also the  exact questions that obsessed a man named Polybius   who lived in ancient Greece over 2,000 years  ago during the 2 Century BC while Polybius was   a highly educated member of the Greek upper class  for him these were not just abstract philosophical   topics to be debated over a cup of wine but  burning issues of direct and painful relevance   not only to himself personally but to his home  city of megalopolis and to the entire wider Greek   world this is because during Polybius' lifetime  the Roman Republic had gone on a rampage through   the Greek World defeating one state after another  including Polybius' own city of megalopolis in 167   BC pus was shipped off as a hostage to Rome  along with a thousand other prominent Greeks   all of this came as a devastating shock to pus  over a century earlier the conquest of Alexander   the Great king of Macedon had spread Greek culture  throughout the Eastern Mediterranean and into the   near East although Alexander's Empire had  fragmented upon his death into numerous   smaller kingdoms Greek culture remained dominant  giving many Greeks a smug sense of superiority   after all were they not the creators of such  magnificent achievements as the architectural   Perfection of temples like the Parthenon the  sculpted beauty of statues such as the derus   the clever plays of Sophocles and the brilliant  philosophy of Plato the period after Alexander's   Conquest was known as the helenistic era and  during it the erudition and Ingenuity of Greek   culture coupled with the the ruthlessness of the  Macedonian military machine seemed an unbeatable   combination the helenistic cities and empires of  the Eastern Mediterranean were wealthy prosperous   sophisticated and self-satisfied and then this  world was turned upside down onto this complacent   scene burst the Romans who swept in from the  Western Mediterranean and in little more than a   generation toppled nearly every one of the mighty  helenistic kingdoms to many greets the Romans   would have seemed UNC barbarians utterly lacking  in the intellectual skills and accomplishments   that they prize so highly how could such relative  brutes have triumphed so rapidly over the talented   and Powerful Greeks this riddle was so compelling  to pus that he devoted the rest of his life to   trying to answer it his investigation took the  form of writing a gigantic 40 volume History of   Rome in which he meticulously described Rome's  expansion across the Mediterranean and offered   his analysis of Rome's spectacular success he  lays out his motivation right at the beginning   of his history stating can there be anyone so  apathetic or lacking in curiosity to have no   desire to understand by what means and under what  form of government the Roman humans conquered   the entire inhabited world and brought it under  their absolute control in a time span of barely   53 years pus was perhaps uniquely qualified to  undertake such a project because he acquired   firsthand knowledge of Roman imperialism not only  from his perspective as one of its victims but   also from the Roman Viewpoint as well Polybius  ultimately spent 16 years as a hostage at Rome   where he was treated more like a guest than  a prisoner while there he became friends with   the most powerful Roman family of the day the  scipios. Polybius accompanied these Roman generals   on campaigns in Africa and Spain and thus when  it came to analyzing the fall of the Greek world   and the Rise of Rome pus had truly witnessed both  sides before looking at Polybius' explanation for   the Rise of Rome we need to examine his overall  ideas about how and why civilizations rise and   fall like many ancient thinkers pus believed  that civilizations behaved like living creatures   and followed a natural biological cycle of birth  growth maturity stagnation Decline and death the   earlier Greek philosophers Plato and Aristotle  had both expressed versions of this Theory   pus took these ideas even further and offered  a very elaborate scheme he proposed a cyclical   progression of seven stages of government that  form an endless repeating Loop called anacyclosis   he posited that primitive humans had begun in  a sort of anarchic original condition without   political structures this is the first  stage eventually a strong leader emerged   who brings order and direction for the good of  all and thereby gains the respect and falty of   the group The People willingly bestow the mantle  of authority upon him and thus we reach the second   stage of the cycle kingship while the original  King earned his position of leadership through his   actions the kingship was usually then passed down  by heredity over time subsequent monarchs start to   grow arrogant and abuse their power through arbit  or unjust actions and the kingship degenerates   into the third phase tyranny this provokes a group  of the wealthiest and most dynamic men to organize   together and overthrow the Tyrant they then  take charge of running the state in a collective   fashion sharing power among themselves and the  fourth phase aristocracy is born while the initial   group of aristocrats Act with the interests of  all in mind once again over subsequent Generations   their descendants become addicted to wealth and  status and begin to think only of themselves and   aristocracy degenerates into its corrupt form  oligarchy The Ordinary People inevitably grow   weary of the abuses of the overbearing oligarchs  and reach a point where they can't take it anymore   the people rise up in Revolution and either  kill or expel the oligarchs recalling their   ill treatment by tyrants and oligarchs they  desire neither a kingship nor an aristocracy   this inspires them to take up the Reigns of  government themselves and create a democracy in   which political power rests in the hands of the  people equality and freedom of speech typically   form two of the cornerstones of democracies for  a time there is Harmony and prosperity but soon   corruption again Creeps in later generations  who have grown up always enjoying freedom of   speech and equality begin to take these rights  for granted and no longer guard or value them   greed leads to inequality and affluence Fosters a  sense of entitlement both create resentment among   the populace deceitful and Shameless leaders arise  who play upon these feelings by making extravagant   promises vowing to shower the people with gifts  but in reality these men are only concerned   with increasing their own power with the rise of  such power hungry and narcissistic leaders often   called demagogues democracy devolves into the next  phase mob rule at some point one of the demagogues   emerges as dominant over all the others and seizes  control of the state or else there is a general   collapse into Anarchy followed by the emergence  of a new strongman then the entire cycle repeats   itself this is how pus described his doctrine of  anacyclosis and in his presentation of it there is   indeed an almost biological inevitability to  the way in which each stage degenerates into   its negative twin that pus would subscribe to this  theory is quite understandable because its General   outlines matched up well against the histories  of many of the Greek city states for example   if we look at Athens the largest and most famous  of them its development aligns pretty well with   the anacyclosis scheme according to Legend its  earliest rulers were wise Kings such as Theus who   was renowned for slaying the half bull half human  monster known as the minitar then as Athens grew   in power and wealth it went through a phase when  it was ruled by tyrants The Arrogant behavior of   these tyrants caused them to be overthrown and a  group of aristocratic families assume power over   time a series of institutional reforms shifted  Athens towards an Ever more democratic structure   of government culminating in the direct  radical democracy of the mid 5th century BC   a time that also corresponded to the high point of  Athenian power and wealth towards the end of the   5th century BC however unscrupulous politicians  arose who although pretending to be champions   of the people were really only interested in  selfishly advancing their own careers these   demagogues included men such as alabes who  encouraged the Athenian people to vote for   foolish policies that led to Athens catastrophic  defeat in the pelian war and the collapse of the   Athenian Empire during The Next Century not just  Athens but all of Greece fell under the control   of a new generation of Kings such as Alexander  the Great and his successors and the cycle seemed   to have circled back to its beginning it's worth  noting that innumerable later thinkers would be   greatly influenced by Polybius' anacyclosis model  and would either comment on it or or offer their   own versions among the more notable of these  during the Middle Ages was Thomas aquinus the   great philosopher Theologian who wrote the sum  theologica during the Renaissance Nicolo melli   the brilliant and Infamous political commentator  best known for his trus the prince was heavily   influenced by pus and in another of his writings  the discourses offered his own version of the   anacyclosis cycle during the 18th century the  intellectuals of the Enlightenment were fascinated   with ideas about the progression of history and  many Enlightenment thinkers subscribe to pius's   theory in an essay called men's lust for power  the American Founding Father John Adams directly   echoed pus writing simple monarchy will soon mold  itself into despotism aristocracy will soon commit   an oligarchy and democracy will soon degenerate  into an anarchy this concept affected Adam so   powerfully that he described it as the Creed of my  entire life all of this leads back to the central   puzzle that had motivated pus to write his history  why had Rome been able to conquer the helenistic   world so easily his conclusion was that the  Romans had cleverly found a way to step off the   ever revolving wheel of anacyclosis how did they  accomplish this Rome had initially started out as   a monarchy ruled by Kings but in the 6th Century  BC had expelled them and established a republic   dominated by Aristocrats so far this follows the  anacyclosis model however by pius's time in the   second Cent BC the Roman Republic had evolved into  a kind of hybrid governmental structure that still   retained some aristocratic elements but also  vested substantial power in the citizen body   and featured elected magistrates pus believed that  this version of the Roman Republic had managed to   craft a constitution that mixed together elements  of all three of the positive forms of government   kingship aristocracy and democracy he thought  that by blending these three forms together   the Romans had found a way to arrest their  Decay and avoid the dangerous and corrupting   effects of their negative manifestations tyranny  oligarchy and MOB rule therefore to pus the factor   that made the Romans different and accounted for  their astonishing rise was the unique political   structure of the the Roman Republic he describes  it in this way as for the constitution of Rome   it has three distinct components each of them  possessing political Powers these respective   powers are parceled out and the whole system  regulated with such a scrupulous regard for   equality and equilibrium that one cannot say for  certain whether the constitution on a whole is   an aristocracy a democracy or a monarchy if we  focus our attention on the power of the conss   these are the most important elected officials  in Rome we would be inclined to see the system   as monarchical if we focus on the Senate then it  seems an aristocracy and finally if one considers   the power possessed by the people in the Roman  Constitution it appears to be a democracy pus   is describing what today we might term a mixed  Constitution a political system in which power is   divided among different branches of government  that are themselves controlled by different   groups within Society there is more to pius's  analysis however according to him not only did   the Roman Republic cleverly divide political  power among these branches of government but   the three components were also bound together  in a complex web of interdependency to quote   pus again whenever any one of the three branches  of government becomes overbearing and displays   an inclination to be contentious and encroach upon  the others the mutual interdependency of all three   and the possibility of the Ambitions of any one  of them being checked or blocked by the others   curbs this tendency and so the proper equilibrium  is always maintained to pus this was the secret   strength of the Roman Republic that its political  structure managed to capture the best elements of   three different forms of government and fuse them  together into a dynamic but balanced hole one can   debate just how accurate pius's assessment of  the Roman Constitution was however in a world   in which the current states were mostly monarchies  there was indeed something unusual about the mixed   structure of the Roman Republic if the idea of  a government that divides power among three main   branches and employs a system of checks and  balances sounds very familiar especially to   Americans it should the education of America's  founding fathers was deeply steeped in classical   authors including pus whose comments on the  Roman Republic were among the key influences   on the founders of the American Republic as we've  already seen John Adams was particularly fond of   pus frequently quoting him in his speeches and  essays and directly stating that they were an   inspiration when drafting the Constitution of  the United States Adams was not alone in his   appreciation for pius's account of the structure  of the Roman Republic Thomas Jefferson considered   an understanding of pus so essential that during  the Constitutional Convention he sent a copy of   pius's History to James Madison for him to study  so was pus correct in his belief that the Romans   had solved the puzzle of how to stop the cycle  by finding the ideal form of government keep in   mind that pus himself lived at the height of  the Roman Republic success in the 2nd Century   BC unfortunately beginning about a century later  during the period known as the late Roman Republic   the system that pus so admired would begin to  malfunction and eventually implode it turned   out that the Roman Solution was not permanent the  Roman Republic did eventually collapse even worse   when it did fail during the first century  BC it more or less followed the anacyclosis   model resentments built up among many different  groups within Roman society including veterans   allies half citizens poor citizens and even some  Aristocrats each of whom felt that they were not   fairly sharing in the benefits and wealth that  Rome Conquest had produced the last century of   the Republic witnessed the rise of a series of  demagogic leaders men like Marius suah pompy   and Julius Caesar progressively undermined the  institutions and traditions of the Republic and   placed their own personal interests above  the good of the state they manipulated the   Common People raised private armies and when  they disagreed with political Rivals replaced   debate or compromise with violence and bloodshed  around around of Civil Wars ultimately led to the   emergence of a new strong man who vanquished  all his foes and became a king-like figure the   emperor A system that would persist for the rest  of Roman history the first of these Emperors was   a grand nephew of Julius Caesar named Octavian  later known as Augustus once he becomes emperor   his rule marks the death of the Roman Republic  and the beginning of the Roman Empire it might   seem that Rome's special mixed Constitution only  temporarily managed to arrest the Turning of the   anacyclosis wheel and that in the end the Roman  Republic fell prey to all the usual ills predicted   by Polybius' scheme the collapse of the Roman  Republic was was a complex and prolonged process   not all Scholars agree that it follows pius's  model and it is certainly possible to debate this   issue but regardless of how closely you think  the Roman Republic followed the anacyclosis   Paradigm there is no doubt that it does offer  a useful and provocative method for analyzing   history the basic question that it poses regarding  whether or not civilizations are doomed to fall is   a Timeless one that all States including modern  ones have to confront if Polybius' 2,000-year-old   writings can provide a tool that enables us to  better grapple with these fundamental questions   then they certainly deserve to be remembered  and studied I hope you enjoyed this episode   if you want to learn more about ancient history or  myself please check out my website my books or the   various audio and video courses that I've made  with the Great Courses slth teing company those   are available from audible Apple Books Amazon and  directly from the Great Courses thanks very much   for watching and remember it's easier to make  sense of the present if you know about the past [Music]