Part two of an ongoing dialogue between Direct Path teacher Rupert Spira and Zen teacher Henry Shukman. They discuss the deep training tradition shared by art and contemplation, the role of koan practice in stabilising awakening, and the meaning of spiritual friendship — why it matters that the apprentice eventually surpass the master.
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In this episode I host part 2 of an ongoing dialogue between Rupert Spira: a teacher of the direct path method of Advaita and an internationally acclaimed ceramic artist; and Henry Shukman, Zen teacher and award winning poet and writer. Rupert and Henry discuss the path of deep training in both art and spirituality, why traditional forms are repositories of generational understanding, and the meaning of spiritual friendship. Rupert reflects on how art points to truth, and Henry discusses Koan training as a means to stabilise awakening. Rupert and and Henry also reflect on what it takes to create effective art and why it is vital for the apprentice to surpass the master. … Video version: www.guruviking.com Also available on Youtube, iTunes, & Spotify – search ‘Guru Viking Podcast’. … Topics include: 00:00 - Intro 00:47 - Rupert on Henry’s zen memoir 03:46 - Henry on Rupert’s books 06:01 - Evolution of Rupert’s art from ceramics to language 13:00 - Discipline teaches the process of art 15:42 - The student must surpass the teacher 20:06 - Premature teaching vs submission to deep training 25:30 - Henry’s journey as a poet 30:17 - Imitation before innovation 33:57 - Koan training to stabilise awakening 36:48 - Forms of the tradition are the repositories of generations of understanding 39:33 - Key moments in Henry’s koan training 42:48 - 1-1 teaching vs group teaching 49:02 - Are new koans evolving? 52:52 - Rupert and Henry discuss koans 57:18 - What is required of the artist to make effective art? 01:00:26 - What Henry’s art seeks to convey 01:06:38 - Rupert on how art points to truth 01:12:47 - Art of expressing suffering 01:16:05 - The experience of artistic work 01:21:54 - The master’s view 01:24:31 - Rupert and Henry on Steve’s facilitation 01:27:18 - On teaching … Previous dialogue between Spira and Shukman: - https://www.guruviking.com/podcast/ep131-art-spirituality-rupert-spira-henry-shukman To find out more about Rupert Spira, visit: - https://www.guruviking.com/podcast/ep124-art-of-awakening-rupert-spira - https://rupertspira.com/ To find out more about Henry Shukman, visit: - https://www.guruviking.com/search?q=shukman - https://www.mountaincloud.org/about/henry-shukman/ … For more interviews, videos, and more visit: - www.guruviking.com … Music ‘Deva Dasi’ by Steve James