Peter Crone: Working With Rose on Chronic Migraines

This might sound very strange to you to some degree. Your migraines are actually the only form of relief you get. >> Yeah, but you know what? This feels like normal to me. >> No, I know. But your normal is not healthy. >> To feel physical pain would be better than to experience the heartache. >> So, imagine now your 12-year-old doing whatever you were going to do to break her own hand just to try and get your attention. How would that leave you feeling as a mother? >> Devastated. had quite a challenging past with alcoholic dad, depressed mom and very manipulative mom, also a bit abusive. I do think that all the emotions when I was younger got stuck in my body and now I suffer from migraines. Whenever I find something I love to do, there's the migraine. New sports, love it, migraine. >> Yeah, let's get your question and and go from there. I experienced a lot of challenges in my teenage years and from good health and a very sporty person. I went to feeling sick a lot of the time just overnight. So my question basically is what don't I see to why these migraines show up? And my second question is definitely related is like I just feel like a failure every time I don't feel well which is often and I feel like I failed to build my business or the career that I dream of. I just basically failed to feel like me. >> Yeah. >> And now I hear the healing stories all around, right? It's like and I've tried everything or not everything but like a lot of things for many years. But every time you try something new and then it doesn't seem to work. I feel like I failed again because there's so many other people who can make it work. I don't understand why it's still here despite me trying to heal it for like 20 plus years now. Yeah. So when do you know to stop to try to heal and to accept just what is? >> Mhm. >> Or how to work towards healing but not feel like failing when it doesn't seem to be helping. I I find that's very hard to to to balance, you know. >> Yeah. Absolutely. So let's go right back to where you started where you said, you know, that this feelings of losing yourself happened in your teens, right? >> Yeah. >> Was there something that transpired there? What did you go through that um you could connect to maybe why there was a shift in who you were? >> Well, a lot of things happened at home. So I'm an only child and uh with a loving mom and dad but emotional both not uh very uh developed you know and um my dad was uh quite an alcoholic and uh that that really became a problem in my teens and then my mom >> uh who was already a daughter of an alcoholic she just completely broke down when the situation with my father like collapsed basically. Then she broke down into like a pretty deep depression but like a in um nothing officials like she never went to see any doctors or anything. So basically I was taking care of them and there was a lot of fighting, a lot of stress. Uh just it was terrible basically you know I tried to make my dad stop drinking which obviously I can understand now you know was never up to me or but but back then I just felt like I was the one who needed to save everything and to make sure everything >> uh would be better >> and of obviously I couldn't. So that I understand right now. And then I was always a very sporty person, very I don't know excited, jolly and and >> cheerful and really into sports, you know. I wanted to be like proquarter and um well very excited about sports and arts and things like that. And then um so then you know all those stress happened and then it started with me having like a really bad back injury. >> Okay. And then I wasn't allowed to do sports for a year but sports was everything for me. So that was really terrible. So obviously I was having a lot of pain but then I had to stop the sports which was everything for me. And then during that year I got really severe asthma. I was actually rushed to the hospital to be put on oxygen because my oxygen levels were uh very low. So that was another like real significant part of my body body failing. And then the only thing in my life back then that gave me love and attention and pleasure was my cat. And this is silly to be talking about a cat right now. But anyway, because of the the asthma, I got really bad allergies and then we had to get rid of the cat. But she was like she was like the only light of my life back then, right? So I had to give so I lost basically >> everything to do with my parents and my old childhood and then you know my back sports asthma allergy cat had to go >> and then ever since then I just felt like well not good let me let me be polite and uh so I would have headaches all the time low energy I get hay fever you know uh blocked uh what do you call it >> sinuses >> yeah blocked sinuses and I just never really recovered from that. So, um so I learned to deal with that for a very long time. >> Okay. >> And that was so I kind of found my way with that because with that I didn't feel very well but it didn't really stop me as the migraines did and I used to get migraines but only like a couple of times a year and then my son was born 16 years ago >> and that was amazing. I mean that's like a bundle of love and a beautiful episode in my life but unfortunately ever since um yeah every month so related to hormones >> to your cycle. Yeah. >> Yeah. to my cycle. Um, yeah, I get the migraines and uh, yeah, that's really a different story though because that's just >> Yeah. >> Uh, yeah, it's really difficult to to >> well, it's just impossible to plan basically anything in my life. I just have to see >> like I don't know. I'll see how I'll feel that day and then we know what's going to happen, right? So it's like >> because it never shows up on exactly the same day in my in my cycle. So I always have to kind of guess. >> So yeah. >> Okay. Okay. Well, I appreciate you sharing so honestly and openly and vulnerably. Um to go back again to the beginning when you said your dad there was a lot of uh disturbance in the house and alcoholism and your mom broke down and went into depression. Was that because they separated or they stayed together and she just couldn't handle it? What what happened between them in their relationship? >> Well, a lot. And it was obviously difficult because um so there there was talk about separation all the time. >> Like all the time, but also like they had a business together. So it was very difficult for them to separate even to separate the finances basically. For them at least it was very difficult. And then they would they would they would ask me like, "Okay, uh, if we would separate, who do you want to live with?" But I basically felt like I honestly felt like I was like my dad's life was in my hands, but my mom's life as well. It's like I I was really afraid that he would >> kill himself by drinking and drinking and driving and stuff. And I would feel like my mom would lose herself in the depression if I wasn't taking care of them. So I felt like yeah there's like there's no way I you know I can't split myself in half. Right. >> Right. But them not separating was also like unbearable basically because there was so much there was so much >> well it was just toxic all around and there was so much stress and so much hatred between them at that time >> and I was the one I was like the >> yeah like the mediator basically right it was even like well go tell your mom this go tell your dad that and they would be like on we would be on the same table even right so >> right >> was really tough toxic. Yeah. >> Yeah. I'm sorry you had to go through that. That's really hard for a kid. How How old were you when that started? You said you're a teen, like young teen. >> Yeah. Yeah. 13 when it started. >> And it just went through all my teenage years until I left the house when I was 18 or 17, 18, something like that. And then obviously it didn't stop, but then I pulled myself out of it. Mhm. >> And actually nowadays because that I do want to share like um I'm still in contact with my parents and they had a very they do much better now. Not >> they're still together. >> They are still together and they found their own they found their own way. my dad stopped drinking and they have both been amazing grandparents for my kids and they help me out a lot and I know that they love me and I I understand all of that now and I also truly deeply understand that if they would have been able to handle things better. I can see that now. I can see it in their eyes, right? Like they wish they would have handled things better. >> Yeah. >> But in reality, you know, they didn't. So, I mean Yeah. >> Yeah. No, I get it. Okay. So, what do you think based on the fact that you're familiar with my work, you're in the freedom membership, you are a coach, what would you say that 13-year-old decided at that moment? Like what was the world she was living in? >> Well, the only thing that Well, I clearly clearly remember me saying to myself like we've cried enough now. like it's just there's nobody who's there's nobody who actually is here to help you to put a loving arm around you and >> um so the crying is just useless basically so I can clearly remember me telling myself like just stop the crying and stop the suffering because there's no there's no point. >> Yeah. And um well I did maybe this is crazy so this comes up now. I actually totally forgot about this. >> It's also a bit embarrassing to say since this is going to be broadcasted and everything but um >> that's okay. >> At some time I actually thought when I was when I in the beginning I actually thought like if something would happen to me so this is probably it. If something would happen to me, then it will probably help make everything better again. So something >> expand on that. >> Well, if I would need to go to the hospital, if I would be sick. >> Oh, I see. Yes. >> And even >> then your parents would have to stop worrying about themselves and focus on you. >> Yeah. Or to see like what's important and that the three of us are important or Yeah. I don't know. It's a childish way of thinking, but I actually I even tried to break my hand once to just to get them to stop whatever was going on to >> I didn't succeed by the way, but I really tried to. >> Well, I'm happy that you didn't break your hand. But but so look at that. That's really beautiful. And I don't think that's embarrassing at all. I think that really is um something that we can all have compassion for. that 13-year-old is under so much stress and duress and she just wanted everything to go away which I think is very human especially for a child like you could say well that was childish well you were a child >> so you were acting in accordance with who you were so it's very appropriate >> um so expand more on that so trying to break your hand what what what were you under the impression that that would bring you or what resolution would that inspire Yeah. That they would just stop the negativity and to shake them up basically to to to waken them up, you know, to just >> Yeah. >> to to shake things and to show them like what the what the [ __ ] are you doing, right? It's like it's just like >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Like that. >> Yeah. And as you remember that now being a memory that you hadn't recalled for a while, how does that hit your body? How does that feel as a grown woman and as a mom? >> Very sad. Yeah, it's it's a heartbreaking and also very helpless. Very and very child in the most loving sense. Very very much a child who doesn't know what to do because back then I obviously didn't see myself as a child anymore. At 13 you don't really see well at least I didn't feel like I was a child, you know. I just tried to deal with everything and and uh and now I realize especially since I have kids of my own. >> Yeah. >> How how young and unequipped >> Yeah. >> I would have been at that age >> and that's >> Yeah. That's really >> sad and lonely also. Very isolating. >> Very isolating especially as an only child. So now looking back as a grown mother, as a woman, and you have a 16-year-old son of your own. So that version of you is 3 years younger than your son. >> Yeah. I have a daughter who's 12. So >> Oh, okay. So perfect. So look at her. Do you do you see how fragile and hopeless and powerless she would be in a situation like that? >> Yeah. It's heartbreaking. >> It's really heartbreaking. Right. I mean that little girl was willing to injure herself, damage her own hand just for some peace. >> Yeah. Just to open some eyes basically. Yeah. >> Yeah. But it wasn't open eyes. It was really she just wanted relief. She was exhausted. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> She was at her wit's end. She was lost. that she said she felt so hopeless, so powerless that she was willing to actually harm herself just to try and get some relief. >> Yeah, that's true. And also that's it's definitely true. And also like um everything would also this is this is another one I can feel it. It's like physical pain would be better. To feel physical pain would be better. This is it. Then to um experience the the heartache, right? It's like >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That hits you, right? >> Mhm. Yeah. Keeping it, but I'm >> Yeah. >> It's okay. It's beautiful. This is why we're here and I really appreciate you going there. So, imagine now your 12year-old. Imagine her doing whatever you were going to do to break her own hand just to try and get your attention. How would that leave you feeling as a mother? >> Devastated. Yeah. It's like no. >> Yeah. And what what world must you have lived in? And if you imagine your daughter, what world must she live in that she's willing to go to those extremes just to try and get some attention and relief? >> Yeah. Very isolated, very lonely. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Heartbroken. >> Hopeless. >> Yeah. Hopeless. Yeah. >> And if you were to describe it in language, like how does the world occur to her? How does everything seem to her? >> Well, hopeless is the thing. And especially and the world at large and even myself. I even lost like the hope. Well, even no the trust. I I lost the trust in everything because I couldn't trust my parents anymore. >> Yeah. >> But I couldn't trust my body anymore either. >> And there was there was nobody else. Also, like I tried to reach out to family, >> but they didn't really see me. Like so there was literally like there was just nobody there. So I I I was like, "Yeah, what's that about then?" Right? It's like it's um >> Yeah. >> So it basically taught me to depend on me. >> Yes. >> Which now is also a quality because I'm strong. >> Yeah. >> Um and it's >> Yeah. I'm really good at that. And that feels like a rea --- intelligent. You know, so you're a fire type. You're a kid who's right there. You go. So you feel that exhale. That's a little bit of the release, right? >> But think about your daughter right now. Think about how would she feel if you were the drunk, if you were the depressed, if you were the combination of your mom and your dad and she was the one having to take care of you. Could you see the amount of pressure, as you said, for a child who doesn't have the coping strategies, doesn't have the resources to be able to do that? Yeah, it's unbearable. It's not It's It's too much pressure. It's like overload. It's >> Yeah. And if someone were to say, "What are migraines like?" Wouldn't you use the same word? Unbearable. >> Definitely. And pressure. Unbearable pressure. Because it just feels like it's something, you know, crashing through your veins and nervous system that's bigger than >> it has to go through. Yeah. >> It ising pressure. Yeah. >> Yeah. So if you can understand the energetics of who you are as a fire type right so you're a firet type person >> your resting state meaning your everyday state is immense amount of pressure >> is considered that's normal right that's your normal it's not natural but that's your normal >> definitely yeah >> then you have your cycle which is the increase of pa fire so your threshold is already met so then you spill over. So the pressure that's already been there is now being exaggerated and amplified, which is what then creates your migraines. Do you see? >> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> So it's normal for there to be an increase for for every woman. But if they're not in a typical state of excessive pressure like you, then sure, they might get a mild headache. That's not to say they wouldn't still feel the impact of these biological hormonal changes, but it wouldn't be to the same extremes. Do you see that? >> Mhm. Definitely. So I want you to consider in language in the way that I look at it through as you're familiar with my work you know these prisons right so the the languaging I want you to consider as that little girl when you said that it doesn't matter what you want if it doesn't matter what you want what you're saying is that your needs don't matter. >> Yeah. >> Can you feel that? So imagine that little girl 13 her needs don't matter. Why? because it's too important for her to have to take care of depressed mom, alcoholic dad, which is her way actually of just trying to create a safe environment for herself. >> Yeah. >> A peaceful environment for herself. And she's willing to go to the extremes of really damaging herself, harming herself. Like it makes me want to cry thinking about that poor 13-year-old who's willing to hurt her precious, beautiful little hand just to get a moment of emotional relief. So that's how far she's willing to embrace the fact that her needs don't matter so much that she can hurt herself. The physical pain, as you said, would be way better than the emotional pressure. >> Yeah. >> And just really feel that, Rose. That was your life for years. >> Yeah. Until >> is. >> Yeah. >> That's That's no life to lead. >> Well, we still make the best of it. Well, yes, but that's how you that's how you survived, right? Like you're you're an incredible woman and an incredible mother and your children are very lucky to have you, >> but you're a fragment of your, as you said, you've lost yourself. The girl who was very sporty, who was very happy, who was very full of life. She's still in there, but she's buried under this huge amount of oppression. >> Pressure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But it's so it's so literal the pressure because like I can always feel pressure and I even I noticed that the other day I had some acupuncture puncture done and a vagus nerve >> uh also for the migraine and then the guy and it was >> it was quite it was really intense because actually there was pressure coming out and I was shaking and shivering and crying and I really don't like to cry anymore but it was just I couldn't stop it and it was overwhelming and it just went on for like I don't know how long and then the guy took out the needles and I was resting again and then he said like what what do you hear right now and I said like oh my god it's quiet I just hear silence I don't hear anything and >> and I didn't even know that I never hear silence I I I just always hear pressure like a buzzing sound >> so that's that is like literal pressure but also like when I sleep and then when I go when I fall asleep because I used to meditate a lot and do a lot of yoga I mean, I've, you know, I know >> tried everything. >> I tried everything, right? >> And um and I use bits and bobs of everything. And then when I fall asleep, I make sure that I'm relaxed and I even let my hands touch like, you know, in a relaxed way and not clenched or anything. But then I wake up in the middle of the night or like early mornings and that's always when I feel basically almost every morning I don't feel very well >> because I just I just feel like I wake up and then my fists are like this and I just you know my neck really hurts and like always my throat there's always pressure on my throat and on my ears and jaws and I mean pressure is like >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Pressure is pressure >> pressure defines you my dear. Yeah. So we're going to get So you're doing great. So I'm glad that you can see it and it really resonates. So the first thing to recognize as I said is that little girl decided she decided that her needs don't matter. They don't come first. Right. >> But did she decide that or was that the reality? >> No, she decided. We always decide that wasn't the reality. That's how she perceived the reality. because of the way the way that you view things is the way that you then uh alchemize your relationship to life. I'm not saying that your dad being an alcoholic was great and your mom was depressed was great, but some other soul who wasn't here to learn the lesson of taking care of themselves wouldn't have had that reaction. They would have been like maybe they would have checked out. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're right. I get it. Yeah. And definitely. >> See, so it wasn't because your dad was an alcoholic and your mom was depressed that you you had to take care of them. That's your way of relating. >> Yeah, I get it. >> And you will, and this is where you'll be an extraordinary mom because you're going to put your kids first, which we could argue every mother does at some level, but not to the extremes you do probably because of the way you relate to life, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. >> Do you see that? So, you put your needs secondary. Everybody else's needs matter before yours. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> So, again, we just want to understand the way you relate to life. Everything that we experience as human beings is based on the way we relate to life. >> Yeah. >> And the way we relate to life is the way that we relate to ourselves in life. So if who that little girl is is that her needs don't matter, your parents needs or other people's needs come first, then you will start to see how you behave right? >> Mhm. >> And I'm going to guess that if we were to go through every boyfriend you've ever had, you played the same role. >> Yeah. Yeah, definitely. But learning though, it's like a learning curve, right? I mean, uh, but definitely true. Yeah. >> Yeah. Well, hopefully and hopefully as we grow, we become a little bit more aware of our patterns and maybe we don't become so driven by them or defined by them. >> A lot of freedom there now. But, uh, it's been it's it's been a journey definitely. >> Now, you mean in intimate relationships? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, you Yeah. Great. So, you've started to become more mature. you've stood up for yourself and perhaps, you know, slowly progressively attracted men who aren't so needy to start with versus now maybe someone who actually does also reciprocate and show love and affection and take care of your needs too, right? >> Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. >> Great. >> Yeah. >> And that's easier in that realm because it's not as significant as your parents as your or as your children, right? They're obviously closer to you. Anything that gets to that level of being closer is going to trigger at a deeper level the fact that they come first you. >> Well, you know, interesting thing is like I'm not I don't I always say like uh I'm not ever going to live with anybody anymore except my kids and dogs, but u not with humans. So, I want to be in a relationship. I am in a relationship. It's very loving and there's a lot of space. But um as soon as I would live with somebody >> then um that's difficult for me because then I don't I don't know how to create the space when I'm actually physically in a house with somebody. >> Yeah. Amazing. >> Yeah. >> So again just to so this is beautiful. So for you understand and to give you the possibility of living with someone. I'm not saying you should or you shouldn't but at least we want to live in a world of freedom where that is available to you. You're not worried about when you said you can't live with someone. What you're actually saying is you can't live with the idea that your needs don't matter when you're with somebody. So what you're avoiding is not living with someone. What you're avoiding is the stress and the pressure and the pain of thinking you have to put your needs secondary. >> Yeah. >> Do you see that? So it's really subtle cuz if you really understand that you could live with as many people as you want. What we want to be able to turn off is the fact that everybody else's needs come first before yours. That's not a truth. That's a lie that you've created. >> Yeah. >> Do you see that? >> Yeah, I do. >> So again, so if I were to categorically ask you, is it true as an absolute truth that your needs don't matter? >> Well, as an absolute truth, no. >> Well, that's how I phrase the question. So >> then the then the answer is no, sir. >> Great. So that's the absolute truth. Now, however, in Rose's reality and the way that she lives, views herself, and interacts with other people, that's not a truth. That's the way it is. That's your normal. >> Yeah. >> And that's what you're trying to avoid. You're not trying to avoid living with someone. You're trying to avoid the pain and the suffering that comes from the way that you relate to living with somebody. >> And there's another level to this which we're going to get to. Right? I just first of all want you to see how willing, unbeknownst to yourself, so there's no guilt or shame, you are to put your own needs to one side. >> Yeah. >> What's it like as a woman as smart as an intelligent, as committed to health and wellness as you are to realize that you've been doing that to yourself? >> Well, I think I always kind of knew, but I I rebel in other ways. So >> you have to because otherwise you would just implode, right? >> I mean you rebelled to the point >> Yeah. and explode and you're willing to try and break your own hand as a child. >> Yeah. >> And we could even argue that to some degree your migraines are actually this might sound very strange to you. Your migraines are the only form of relief you get. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's true. Because it's very extreme and then there's nothing else. It's like in a way it's true >> because >> I mean I as I was about to say those words, it hit me how powerful that is because you would say it's the opposite. But actually, if you live in a world consistently where you're under pressure, where you're the one who's taking care of everyone else's needs versus yours, this is the only moment that Rose gets to actually focus on herself. Think about it. If a 13-year-old is willing to actually break her hand, how painful that would have been, how long that would have stayed. You said your migraines can last anywhere from a few days to maybe a week or two. Your hand injury would have been longer. This is the way, albeit unconscious. Of course, we wouldn't wish this upon you. You're not choosing it consciously, but it is the way where you get to check out for a minute from the pressure of always thinking you have to take care of everybody else first. Isn't that crazy when you look at that? >> It is. But at the same time, it's so crazy because it actually adds so much extra pressure and especially now since I'm an adult like every and especially also like being a single mom, it's like everything continues. So even with or without migraine, I continue to >> of course but that's the way that the ego perpetuates its own existence, right? Because you're getting more mature, you're getting older. You said even in your romantic relationships, you're learning to like shift and and transform the way you relate to people, which is great. But your ego is like, "No, no, no, no, no. I got to stay in the world of pressure." So, what's one of the ways I can keep amplifying and adding to that existence? It doesn't want to go anywhere. So, you've learned, you've managed through your resources, your intelligence, your capability, your wisdom to manage other people's needs very well, right? But as you get better at that, then the feeling of pressure starts to dissipate. It starts to lessen. So what better way to keep that alive, it's like an addiction, right? You know, when somebody starts with a mild drug, you know, especially over there in Holland, everyone a lot of people smoke weed, right? And then before you know it, you got to go to the next thing, right? >> So here, okay, you learned to manage your pressure, but because you learned to manage it, the pressure seems to dissipate and it starts to minimize. So then what better way to keep adding to it, to keep it alive, than to every month have this addictive check-in with even more pressure, not just literally and biologically, but then emotionally because you're not able to tend to the things that you have to tend to as a mother. Can you see the pattern at least? >> I definitely, but I just I just But why would I do I mean yeah why? >> Well, you're not doing it. It's unconscious, right? This is what the ego does. People sabotage their lives in all sorts of ways. People will throw money away in gambling or through, you know, reckless uh investments or they'll break up their families just to be right about the fact that they're a loser or they're a failure, whatever it might be. Right. >> Because right at the beginning when you watch this again, you were using the word failure a lot. >> Yeah, I I feel I feel that a lot. Yeah, definitely. >> Yeah. And so failure is the way that you can relate to yourself as somebody who wasn't successful at taking care of --- ble constraint on your joy of life. Mhm. Mhm. >> Which equally then not only impacts your expression, your self-expression, your creativity, your business, your financial security, all the things that you're worried about, let alone your physiological response to life. It's also impeding your ability to truly be there for your kids, which and they're everything to you, let alone your your dogs or whatever else other sentient beings you do allow in your house. >> All of them. >> Yeah. Just no other men. Well, they can come but they have to go now. I mean, no, that's not true. That's not true. I'm a very loving Yeah. situation. >> So loving and I really hope that this conversation is actually going to open up the possibility. It sounds like you got a great partner for now at least, you know, for that to as a possibility, not as a have to or a must. you know, maybe there could be a future where you all live under the same roof because Rose doesn't have to feel like one, other people's needs come before hers and two that you know, we could say on the other side of it's my fault is it's all up to you is the way that you could see it. >> Yeah. >> It's all up to you, isn't it? Everything. >> Well, in the end, yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Okay. And when you live in that, how does that feel? If you feel like you're in the world where it's all up to you and if it doesn't happen, it's your fault. I mean, you might as well like just have pressure tattooed on your forehead. >> Yeah. Or on the inside of my lip. >> I hope you're enjoying this conversation and even moved by it. And perhaps part of you would love to learn more, to go deeper and really understand the mechanics of the mind, whether it's to help yourself or others you care about. What would it mean to you to be able to break free from the subconscious limitations that hold you back and help others to do the same? If that's something you'd love to be able to do and to discover with it a new world of freedom and possibility, then I invite you to check out my mastermind with over 30 hours of theory and coaching led by me personally. It's my most powerful and life-changing offering. You can find out more information at peterone.com/mastermind. Okay, and back to the conversation. >> Yeah, man. It's like I'm even I'm trying to imagine like I mean what I meant to say with like this is normal. It's like I don't even feel like a relief because this is like Yeah, I know. This is like But I I'm just trying to picture like w how does it feel to do it the other way around then? I'm like >> I know. Listen, whoever I talk to, >> believe me. Like if you've ever witnessed me work with anyone, this is the expression I say. I'm introducing you to a world with which you're not familiar. >> Yeah. Exactly. It is so foreign to the ego and the personality. When I point out a world on the other side of the lies, the constraints you've been living in that people don't even know how to step into it. >> No, >> but your body is already with the amount of exiles you've had. It doesn't matter. And you're very smart, so you will get it. And I'm not going to leave you hanging out in the world you're in. It's not bad. You've survived. You're incredible. You're resourceful. You're capable. >> You're incredibly tolerant. >> It's insane. And you're very loving. But there is an entire universe of freedom, of love, of possibility waiting for you to come and play in. >> Yeah. And that's all without drugs. >> Yes. All without drugs. I'm like I'm the most high person I know. Right. I haven't touched drugs once. Right. Cuz I'm living in the world of pure freedom. Now I obviously as a human have dipped in and out of the world of suffering. That's why I can have compassion. I know what it's like. It's miserable. >> But your world of suffering has become so normalized that you're semiattached to it. Yeah, >> but what is it like for you to live in the world where it's all up to you and if it doesn't work out, it's your fault? What does that feel like? I know it says normal, but really look at it. Look at it through the eyes of your 12year-old daughter, your beautiful 12year-old. If she if you as a mother looked at her and the way she related to herself was, it's all up to her and if she does anything wrong, if anything bad happens to mommy, it's her fault. How would you feel for that child? Yeah. Terrible. It's It's um Yeah. Indeed. >> She's like, "No, but that's normal, Mommy. That's normal." You're like, "What?" >> No, it's not. It's very un It's >> not normal. >> No, it's not. >> It's super dysfunctional. >> Yeah, it is. It's And it's like you you'd crumble under the pressure, right? And it's not indeed it's it's the opposite of freedom. Indeed. >> It's the opposite of Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And it's exactly how I describe my life. like I've became I honestly think I become the champion or my own champion at making the best of what is >> and I'm grateful for everything in it. But it's the opposite of freedom. >> Yes. This is the way I phrase it. You become the best version of your limited self. >> Yeah. Yeah. 100%. >> Yeah. >> Do you want to keep being the limited version of Rose? >> Well, well, no. I prefer not. But then again, I'm also very proud of, you see, it's like, but that's the thing. So, there is a little bit of resistance of letting go, right? That's the holding on. >> I'd say less than a little. There's a lot. >> Well, I start with a little. >> You're pretty proud and I get it. And as as you should be for what you've accomplished in the face of a lot of adversity and especially as an only child, you know, I can relate a lot, right? Like in ways that are very different. my mom who had cancer from the age of five. I had to learn to be the good boy because where was where was the time for me to have my tantrums or my meltdowns? My mom was dying of cancer for 2 years, right? >> Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. >> So very similar in the way that I could see that I would put my needs secondary. >> Because mommy mommy needs all the attention right? >> Yeah. >> And then dad dies when I'm 17. Like okay, well definitely I'm all by myself. It's definitely up to me. So I can certainly see a lot of my own habits, tendencies, and perspectives in yours. >> Yeah. >> But for that reason, I also know they're categorically not true. >> It's the world that you made up based on the evidence of your reality, which is of course what we do. It's just not a truth. >> Not an absolute truth indeed. >> Yeah. It's not an absolute limited >> truth indeed. >> It was a way that you managed. It was the way that you survived. That 13-year-old didn't know any better. >> Yeah. Now, I'm not saying that this was inappropriate. This is clearly your karma. You did exactly what you were meant to do. But that 13-year-old could have equally as a possibility, just understand this in language. Walked out of the room, left the kitchen table when they're fighting, said, "Well, [ __ ] you guys. Figure it out. You know, you're old enough to figure it out by yourself." Right? >> This is so true. I re I only realized that like maybe like a year ago. Like, why the [ __ ] did I just, you know, why did I not why did I not do that? You know, it's like but I just felt like I couldn't is it's like it wasn't Yeah. It just wasn't in the books for me. It's like I don't know. It's like I didn't make that option. Yeah. >> No, because that was not your karma to do that because every incarnation we're here to look at the things we're here to look at. Your parents was simply the excuse. The excuse, the catalyst >> to reveal the prison you're here to reconcile, which is the idea, the belief. It's not. It's deeper than a belief that everybody else's needs come before yours and it's up to you to make sure that everyone around you is freaking happy. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I really do have that. Yeah. >> Yeah. So, >> there you go. I just want to at least let you have your exhale. >> And then you wonder why you have [ __ ] migraines. >> Yeah. And I just >> I mean, talk about literally hitting your head up against the proverbial wall called you're trying to control everything and everyone around you. >> Yes. It's [ __ ] tiresome, man. It's like, oh my god. >> No [ __ ] It's exhausting. >> Jesus. >> Jesus. Effing. Yes. Exactly. >> Yeah. >> There you go. So, you've had some beautiful exhales. Can you feel that in your body? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I can. >> Isn't that beautiful? That's some of the pressure starting to dissipate, starting to leave your body. >> And the way that you continue to stepping into that world of freedom, which is how we started, this is what you wanted, right? Is I mean, every human being is here, as I said, to discover freedom. Why this whole podcast, my whole message is called finding freedom >> is because that's your nature. >> You started, you were very sporty. You were such a happy, fun-loving girl. She's still there. >> She's just been buried. Literally imagine a girl who in an earthquake is buried under like six tons of bricks >> and she's carved a little space in there. Somehow she's still breathing. She's like, "Well, I'm making the best of it. >> I can see some sunshine there." >> Yeah. Occasionally reach it, you know? I can smell it. >> That's That's what I keep on saying. Like it's like I can imagine it. I can smell it. I can even touch it for like a little while, but then there's just somebody with like a big, you know, baseball bat and, you know, I just when I'm up and running again, it's just waiting for somebody to just knock me off again. >> Yeah. And that person with the baseball bat is your own ego. >> Yeah. So, how do we >> I asked the question earlier, is it an absolute truth that your needs don't matter? >> No. >> No. So, that would open up a new world, wouldn't it? Where you could tend to yourself? That doesn't mean that you go to the spa every day. It doesn't mean that you run a hot bath with rose petals and candles every day. But there would be a an expression of that sort of taking care of oneself. There may be things that Rose wants, has desires, and her own aspirations that she could tap into a little bit more. Giving herself permission. Do you see that? Just to start to crack the door. Like some of those bricks that have been on top of you are starting to fall by the wayside. You're like, "Oh, hang on a minute. I could actually step out and see what's out there. It would be nice for me to put my feet on the grass as opposed to lying on this concrete under bricks, right? >> It's not a big need, but it's something that would feel good. >> Yeah. >> So then the second one we have to look at is it true as an absolute truth that everything and by everything I mean everyone around you, all the circumstance, everything is up to you. Yes or no? Is it true that everything in the world rose? >> No, it's not true. >> Okay. I had to help you out there. Well, because I'm like, it [ __ ] feels true, isn't it, doesn't it? But I know it's not. But so it's not an abs I know it's not an absolute >> I guess I I guess I know it's not an absolute truth. That's the best way to answer. >> It is because that's the truth. That's why it's the best way to answer. >> Yeah. >> So, okay. So now with me, if it's not a truth, you know, the world of it is all up to you because also on the other side of it's up to you. You can't possibly, it's literally impossible to manage the circumstances and billions of people on the planet from that perspective of it's up to you. You can't do it. Therefore, what's going to happen? You're always going to fail. That was if you listen again to the beginning of your this this conversation, you said failure like five or six times because then it's your fault, right? So now you've got the pressure of it's up to you. The guilt and shame of not being able to fulfill on that cuz you're like that 13-year-old. She feels hopeless to manage a drunk grown man and a depressed grown woman. Right. So you keep fulfilling on the same energy of powerlessness. >> Yeah. >> Which is why you manifest physiologically something that you don't know why it's there and you can't get rid of and you're powerless to and all of that. >> Mhm. >> Right. So when you see that world that you live in, we know that world. It's full of pressure. It's full of stress. It's full of vigilance. Right? You're always looking out for potentially worst case scenarios that you have to manage. Vigilance is like danger, right? >> Yeah. Vigilance is like you're super observant but from a place of fear. >> Yeah. >> Because if you don't, right, if you don't control everything, then mom goes away, dad goes away, and you're left by yourself, which ironically is the energy you've been living in and of isolation and separation, right? It's self-fulfilling, >> really. >> So now that's all gone, Rose. It's all gone. You realize the truth. It's not up to you. It's just not up to you. You do the best you can, of course, especially as you're a mom. You obviously do on your children, which is beautiful. But as it relates to your parents now, as it relates to the world, as it relates to God knows whatever's going on with your neighbors, none of that is up to you. None of it. >> Now, if you could just embody that, if your only responsibility is what you choose to be responsible for, see, it's a choice. It's not an obligation. You've been living in a world of obligation. It's a choice. You choose to love and do on your children. Why? Because you adore them. But you can also choose to let your freaking parents argue or do whatever the [ __ ] they want and it's got nothing to do with you. How could you feel if you let go of the obligation part of it's up to you? How might that feel for you? >> Well, that feels more free. And I actually do think that I took that step >> a little bit. I'll give you some. Yeah. You said your parents are a little better now and you can >> Yeah, but actually their their health is pretty bad right now and like mom is still making choices that it's like beyond me how she could choose those. But uh I found peace with that and and a way to love her >> and um to not try to convince her otherwise and just love her for her decisions and not feel and to accept that I have no control and that this is her. Yeah. >> life and her struggle and that I can just love her for what is, you know. >> Amazing. So that I would say is a beautiful external representation of what I'm pointing you towards. But what we can definitely tell is even though you know that mentally, your body is still in the old world or has been of thinking obligation. It's up to me. Right. >> Definitely. Definitely. >> Great. So that's what we want --- e's nothing to gain because what you're up to, which is always the MMO of the ego, is unattainable. Think about it this way. As a very simple example, if someone thinks they're not good enough and they become a people pleaser or a perfectionist as a coping strategy, it never works. Why? Cuz they're being driven by they're not good enough. >> Yeah. >> They can never be good enough if who they are is not good enough. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I can understand it from like an intellectual point of view. >> Yes, I understand. But you've also had moments with deep exhales. I had you shiz. We can do it again. Right. when you when you smiled like that 13-year-old who's smoking weed again or 12y old whenever the [ __ ] you started >> I was older >> a little later right whatever where you're being quote unquote free >> that's your nature my dear >> your nature is freedom and then on top of freedom you've got the world of prisons and constraints called it's all up to me and my needs don't matter okay well go and have a nice life >> so but how to stay in the freedom part then >> you don't have to stay there you're always there. You've always been in freedom. It's about removing the lie that it's up to you. So, say it again. Say it again. Nothing is up to me. >> Yeah. Nothing is up to me. It >> like I really want you to get there. I know your brain is like, "Well, wait. No, I have two kids and I have a Nothing. Nothing. >> Some things aren't." >> No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Listen, nothing's up to you. And then on top of nothing is up to you, you get to choose what is up to you. I choose to be an extraordinary mother. I choose to love and do on my do you on my children. >> It's all a choice. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's a difference. >> That's a very different world. You've been living in the world if you have to take care of a drunk father. You have to manage and like you know soften the the depression of your mother. Like that's [ __ ] impossible. You're not responsible for their emotional well-being. It's nice that you tried but certainly not as a 13-year-old. >> Right. >> Like I can't be responsible for you. So I can just point out what you're already doing for yourself, >> which is living in a prison of constraint, creating all the pressure that physiologically manifests as migraines. It stifles your self-expression. It kills your joy. It absolutely eradicates your freedom. >> Yeah. So literally, >> it it literally in a prison. And what I'm doing is pointing out the bars which are actually in language. I mean, talk about bars. I don't know if you know that as an expression, but you know when somebody says something really profound, people like, "Wow, dropping bars." It's like, you know, as an expression in music. Yeah. So, but the bars in this case are the words that you use as the prison bars of your own hell. >> Yeah. >> And what I'm doing is pointing them out. They're not true. Is it true, Rose, that it's all up to you? >> No, it's not. >> It's [ __ ] not. It's not even close to the truth. That's the prison you've been living in. And is it true that your needs don't matter? No, >> no. Or the other way around. Is it true that other people's needs matter more than yours? >> Well, it shouldn't. No, >> no, >> no, >> they don't. >> No, no. And I know that's hard for a woman and it's really hard for a mother to be able to wrap her head around, but you know, FAA, like every airplane you've ever been on, right? You know what I'm going to say. Put your mask on first. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. and you've been suffocating which is also energetically and biologically where you don't have sufficient flow you know there's the heaviness and the pressure of the uh circulatory system the absence of oxygen >> you know like you're getting these headaches and migraines >> but imagine just imagine right whenever your cycle is next and I don't know that there won't be a migraine I'm going to guess it's be way less can you if can you imagine if your body was feeling as soft as you started to feel when you smiled realizing nothing is up to you. Could you just perhaps speculate that your migraines would either not be there or be less? Could you Could you see that? You don't know it, I know, but if your body was this soft, you were that at ease. You realized it's not up to you. There's no fault. There's no failure and that your needs matter, which means you could do whatever you have to do. You don't have to feel cuz I can imagine as a mom, if you start to feel a migraine, you then add extra pressure cuz oh [ __ ] no, no, no, no. I got to be here for my kids or I've got to take care of this or I've got to prepare dinner. Do you see as soon as the little bit of pressure comes in, you then amplify it with your own pressure of what you should be doing. >> Yeah. And I just dial out my feelings. So it's like, okay, you know, you just go like on automatic pilot again. >> Yeah. So again, you just turn off your own needs. >> Yeah. Whereas there might be the subtle symptom which is enough for maybe you to go lie down, put a cold towel on your head or lie in the dark for just 10 minutes and then it just you know it it eradicates whatever you were dealing with versus you know fighting >> Yeah. >> fighting more which adds more pressure. >> Yeah. Exactly. I used to feel like I have to. >> Yeah. >> And now I realize like no I can choose to. >> It's a totally different world. >> Definitely. It's two worlds. Yeah. It's a new world odds. >> Good. Yeah. You've lived in a world like it wasn't there was no choice for if there's no choice. All you have is obligation and pressure. Whereas you literally and that's why I know it was hard for you to understand, but you did a good job. There's nothing that is up to you. Nothing. Paying your rent, paying your mortgage, none of it. Now, are there consequences of not doing stuff? Of course. You know, eventually maybe someone comes around from your landlord or your the bank and they're like, "Oh, you need to leave because you haven't paid for six months." But you still don't have to. You just, "Okay, well, I'll go live somewhere else or I'll live on the street." Like, it's not what you want. No. >> Do you understand? But it's all a choice. Everything is a choice. But also like when I was young like 13 even then I didn't had to as you said I could have walked away you know I could have but then >> but I choose to yeah but it do think it kind of helps me to realize like that's what I choose >> to do. Yes, >> maybe I didn't know any better, but then call it perhaps, you know, that >> but even that gives me a sense of uh relief. >> It's massive. And that's all you're wanting. Well, relief is the the the the antivenenom to your migraines, right? The relief is the medicine for your body and your physiology to be able to [ __ ] relax. >> Yeah. Exactly. It's the anti- thing what you said the antivenenom >> to the >> tox tox toxicity >> toxicity. Yeah. >> That because migraine feels like literal toxic actually. >> Yeah. >> And this is the venom because it's like it's a whole toxic process. It's like Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It's big. >> It's huge. >> Yeah. Thank you. >> You look you look amazing. Your face is so bright, so light. It's uh >> there you go. Yeah. >> So, this is me breaking your hand for you, which is breaking the prison you lived in. You just didn't need to go through the physical pain. You just needed to go through the emotional release of realizing the hell you've been living in through no fault of your own. Yes, you could look back and go, as a 13-year-old, you could have chosen to not engage, not worry about your parents, but that's hypothetical. You couldn't because >> No, I don't blame myself. I don't blame myself. >> No, that was your journey. That was your karma, right? And now you're at a point as a 47y old where you can go, "Holy [ __ ] >> I've spent my entire life, certainly as a teen, thinking >> it's all up to me. I have to and everybody else's needs matter before my own." And it makes complete sense that I'm exhausted. It's tiresome. I'm always a failure because I can never fulfill on that. And I get [ __ ] headaches. >> Yeah. Yeah. And because of those [ __ ] headaches, I fill everything that's important to me, right? It's like it just the gift that gifts keeps on giving. It's like >> absolutely. >> Yeah. >> And that's why I said to go back. It's a funny thing. Getting migraines was past tense. Let's start to put it behind you. The only time you got relief >> cuz even though it's horrible, that is the version of breaking your hand. >> Mhm. >> Cuz you had to deal with something that was more important than worrying about everybody else for a minute. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Isn't that crazy? >> Yeah. Yeah. Your adult version. >> Yeah. intense that you can't think of anything else, basically, >> which is what that 13-year-old was trying to do by breaking her hand. That's intense. That's [ __ ] intense. Imagine your beautiful I'm sure she's absolutely stunning and her perfect little body. Imagine that little girl wanting to break her hand. >> It's devastating. >> [ __ ] horrific. Devastating. >> Yeah. >> So, there's no more of that, right? There's no more of harming yourself, my dear. You are a joy. You are a bright light. You are such a sweetheart. You have got so much love to give and now you get to include yourself in that. >> Yeah, >> that's a different world. That's an entirely different world. Your kids just got a way more joyous, free, funloving, full of possibility mother. >> Yeah. And also about that self- loveve as well because I always wonder about self- loveve and I do feel a lot of self- loveve but self- loveve is always such a topic, right? But allowing myself to instead of having to being able to, I can choose to. That is massive self- loveve. >> Massive self- loveve. Including even if your mom was to call you this evening and say blah blah blah, your father this and father that. Your old you would have clicked into, oh [ __ ] I have to do something. Now you get to listen. Oh mom, that's too bad. I'm sorry to hear about that. Well, I hope you guys figure it out. I'm going to go and make the kids dinner and you know if you want to call me tomorrow you're welcome to. Do you see? It's like >> leaving her because what you're saying in that exchange is you're amazing mom. You can figure it out. You're old enough. My dad would always say this to me as a kid. My >> Don't worry about Peter. He's old enough and ugly enough to take care of himself. >> He would say that to you. >> Yes. And to my friends. Obviously he loved the [ __ ] out of me. But it was his way of empowering me. >> Yeah. He's old enough and ugly enough to take care of himself. >> Yeah. Yeah. And that would that would give you the confidence. >> Yeah. Like I mean I'm not sure it did at the the time, but I knew he was always just joking with me, but yeah, it's a way of you empowering other people to deal with their own [ __ ] versus thinking that the whole world >> offering them solutions >> or >> and this makes you a better mother for your kids because I'm sure of course you want them to be capable human beings, but I'm sure you also step in at times when you probably don't need to because of the have to versus letting them figure it out. Yeah. Yeah. You know what the interesting thing is? Because um my kids are pretty well balanced >> and spoken out and they feel >> they feel safe because I you know and they actually tell me like just shut up just let me figure it out. And I'm like >> okay >> there you go. Great teachers. >> Yeah. And then I actually realized like yeah okay that's that's beautiful actually. And I'll I'll just be right here, right? Like just Yeah. I'll be the safety net and if you don't need it, perfect. You know, if you do need me, I'm right here. >> Amazing. But you get rid of that edge, that pressure of having to interfere with other people. >> Yeah. And especially their happiness. That's the big one. That's and that is still very everybody's uh well, not everybody, but the people that I care about their happiness. I do indeed feel very much responsible for that. And I do also really realize right now that I'm really not. >> Listen, you're really not. It's literally impossible. >> Yeah. >> And the only form of happiness that you've been denying and negating and ignoring is your own. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> That's pretty big, isn't it? >> It is. >> And I promise you this, your kids want nothing more. Cuz think about that 13-year-old who was willing to break her hand. Your kids want what? for mommy to be happy. >> Happy. That's what I realized because that's all I wanted. >> That's all I ever wanted. For them, for my parents to just feel happy and express themselves and just thrive as as theirelves basically. >> Yeah. Well, now you literally for the first time in decades have the chance to do that. What a gift to you. What a gift to your children. >> And what a gift to all of us having this conversation with you and those listening. Yeah, I hope it helps other Well, it will help other people. >> Of course it will. There's so many people playing the same game, living in the same prison, thinking it's all up to them and it's their fault if they don't save the planet. >> Yeah. Why that luckily, you know, I don't have it that big, but um >> No, but that you might as well. That's the energy. >> I used to I used to when I was younger, I used to have it. Yeah. >> Yeah. Now you've let it go. >> Yeah. >> So now, [ __ ] it. I'm going to live my life and have a blast and Yeah. [ __ ] it. >> [ __ ] it. Yeah. Amazing. >> Amazing. There's one thing I want you to be aware of is there's the anticipatory >> process of the brain, right? The assumption. >> Yeah. >> That things might be a certain way. But now from this place of like choice versus obligation or have to, >> you can stay in the I don't know, the unknown. >> Let's see. All that you can manage is keeping yourself very calm, very cool, very chilled, you know, and if there are certain symptoms you experience, okay, fine. I'm going to take care of my needs. You kids figure it out. I'm going to go lie down in the dark or put my face in a cold bowl of water or whatever it is that you feel you have to do, you know, to help take care of your needs. I'm confident to say that whatever you thought you had as health issues are already leaving your body. I say amen to that. >> Amen to that, sister. >> Well, thank you so much. >> Thank you, my dear. Such a joy to be with you. Welcome to uh finding more freedom. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm just so grateful that you offered this opportunity. So, uh amazing.