Rupert Spira: Why Do We Meditate?

Why do we meditate? >> You tell me why you meditate. >> Well, okay. So, okay. So, I meditate because >> I'm going to let me pause you. Sorry. I'm going to ask you I'm going to come back to that question, but I want to ask you a question before that to help both of us answer the question. What What do you mean by meditating? What is meditating for you? Um, in the path that I've been on until now, I would consider meditating a quiet time of reflection. >> Reflection on what? >> The object. Well, okay. So generally speaking, right, some a lot of people would say that meditation >> just just be very specific. Meditation is a quiet time of reflection for you. What do you reflect on when you're meditating? um until Sunday night. [snorts] I was trying to concentrate on the breath in order to focus my mind, quiet my mind and watch my thoughts without engaging on them in with them. >> Okay. Okay. That that's um yes that that's that's fine. The reason the reason one would watch one's breath or give your attention to your breath is because prior to that you were giving your attention to your thoughts and feelings and that was upsetting you. So if you take your attention off your thoughts and feelings and you give them to for instance your breath, your breath is is neutral. It's benign. It doesn't upset you to give your attention to your breath. It does upset you to give your attention to your feelings. You're feeling hurt or lonely or sad or angry and so on. And and the breath moreover the breath is a a transparent object, a relatively transparent object. It's it has no content. It's there's almost nothing there. So in the objective realm of experience, it to some degree mimics the presence of awareness, which is the 100% transparent and empty. And so focusing on the breath, it it's not going all the way back to your true nature, but it is taking your attention off your thoughts and feelings and giving you temporary relief. As long as you're focusing on your breath and not on your feelings, you're no longer upset. Soon as you stop giving your attention to your breath, you go back to your feelings and you're upset again. So it giving your attention to your breath doesn't uproot the c it doesn't either expose or uproot the cause of your suffering, but it does give you temporary relief from it. But that would be a good reason for reflecting on your breath, focusing on your breath. It's not what we do here because here we don't just want temporary relief from our feelings. We want permanent relief from our feelings. We want lasting peace and happiness, not temporary peace and happiness. So it's not what we do here, but it's a it's a reasonable thing to do. And certainly as a by way of preparation for what we do here. So as you say, until Sunday night, you focused on your breath. What have you been doing since Sunday night? >> [gasps] >> Um uh I will I start by focusing on each part of my body to relax it. And then I focus on my breath. And then I think about I I follow your advice. So I mean yeah I mean that's that's because I I found so um I I come to this through a mix of Christianity, Buddhism and neuroscience. Okay. >> And I have to [sighs and gasps] I have to step my way down into it. >> That's very good. That's very good. I like your description. When I asked you what you've been doing since Sunday night, you said, "First of all, I relax my body. Then I focus on my breath and then I follow what you're doing." So that's good. You start with the the the outer layer of your experience of your experience of yourself. Your your the outer layer of your experience of yourself is your body. So you you scan your body, you relax any tensions in your body. That's good. Then your your attention just goes in a bit further. You notice your breath. You you focus on your breath. You didn't break it down into too many steps. But you might have said I become aware of my thoughts. I become aware of any mo emotions that are present. So in in this way you just take you just go back from your body to your breath to your thoughts to your feelings. You just keep on going back. That's what we do here. We keep on going back but we don't stop. [snorts] We don't allow our attention to rest on any particular object. like a sensation of your body or the breath or the thought or an emotion. We just keep on going back gently and briefly becoming aware of each layer of experience but not allowing our attention to rest on it. Keep on going back until remember attention was a attention is a a stretching. You give your attention to your body. That's like the rubber band is stretched and then it comes back to your breath and then it goes back to your thoughts and it goes back to your feelings and it goes back to your deepest intuition and go until eventually the attention ceases being directed or stretched towards anything. It comes all the way back to its source, the place from where it originates, which is the presence of awareness. And you rest there as that. And you're no longer giving your attention to that because you are that. You can only give your attention to something that is other than yourself. So it's this gradual relaxing of attention, the sinking back of attention or you walk your way back through your experience until you arrive until you can't go back any further. You can't go back further in your experience than awareness or being. And once you once you've reached that, there's nothing for your attention to do anymore. Your attention has stopped being stretched. A tension has been relieved of its tension. And it's attention without tension is pure awareness. [snorts] And then you just rest as that. You just abide that you you've arrived on the Caribbean beach. You're in your deck chair. And then you stay there. You Why? Because what you long for in life above all else is peace and joy and love. And peace and joy and love are the very nature of awareness. And we normally look for them out in the world. And we're all here precisely because that search for peace and happiness and love in the world failed us. That's why we're all here. And so here we go back to the the true source of peace, happiness, and love, which is our being, the presence of awareness. So >> that's the answer to your question as to why one might meditate. >> Okay. I have one more question. Unless >> No, no, no. Carry. >> Okay. Um, but >> why does it feel like work then? Why is it tiring? It feels like work because um do do you like the analogy of John Smith and King Leah? Some people don't like some people just don't want to hear about King Le again. >> I mean I don't want to provoke any resistance. >> It's just like if there are themes during this retreat. >> Okay. All right. So you you understand the analogy. Yes, >> John Smith is is your true nature of awareness and King Leer is the person you seem you seem to be. So it's true that John Smith doesn't need to make an effort to be himself. He's just naturally himself. That's his natural state. So you might well ask, well, why does it why does going back to being John Smith appear to be an effort if John Smith is naturally effortlessly himself? And the reason is because John Smith has given himself so fully to being King Lear that he's forgot he he's forgotten himself. He's lost himself in the content of his experience the the drama of King Leam. So he now feels I am King Leah. He he's he's identified himself with the the thoughts, the actions and relationships of King Leah. As King Leah, he has to make an effort to trace his way back. He has to counter. John Smith has lost himself in King in King Le's. He's identified himself with King Leah's experience. So, King Lear has to make an effort to counter that identification. He has to trace his way back. And he's swimming against the tide because John Smith's been performing King Leer on Broadway every night for the past 30 years. It's it's a very well So there's this >> my tide is not as strong as Greers's but it hasn't been in existence for as long. >> Okay. But you've been practicing it for a number of decades. So that so in most of us the tide is pretty strong. The the habit is very strong. It has a momentum behind it. >> So we most people feel my natural state is to be a person to be a temporary finite separate self. We we think that's natural. Well, if we think that's natural then and and and we think then being John Smith is something absolutely extraordinary. Being enlightened is just the most extraordinary and we feel we have to make an effort to be that. We have to row against the tide to come back to being John Smith. But after we've to begin with we just get a glimpse of of of being John Smith and then then the tide just pulls we stop rowing and the tide pulls us downstream straight away. So then we have to row laboriously upstream again. We come back to to to being oursel to being John Smith. We and therefore we stop rowing. But why when we stop rowing don't we just remain in our true nature? You've all got you got all the way back there. You stop rowing. You you you should just stay there. Why not? Because the tide's still flowing. The habit is still there. So you stop rowing. You don't remain as yourself. You flow downstream again. You find I am king leer again. So you have to go back and forth. For most of us, very occasionally it's not the case. But for almost all of us, there is this back and forth. You you row all the way back. You trace your way back to the through the layers of your experience. You you you arrive at yourself. You stay there. You stay there for a few moments or a few minutes, but the tide takes us again. The force of habit, the pull of experience takes us again. So we keep coming back. But but each time we come back, we we we counteract the the gravitational pull of experience. We weaken that pull of experience. So we begin to find it easier to go back. And and when we when we arrive back at oursel, we find ourselves able to stay there for longer. And when we stop and of course we stop rowing, the tide's still flowing, but it no longer has any effect on us. The tide has to be really strong to pull us out again. But and and occasionally, you know, a really strong feeling or something really distressing in the world takes place and and and we find ourselves drifting downstream again. But fewer and fewer experiences have the capacity to take us away from oursel and we begin to feel established. We we begin to rest there and then we no longer have to make an effort. Then we we we we we realize suddenly, oh, I thought being John Smith was an extraordinary enlightened state that was maintained by practice and effort. Now I realize we there's been a reversal of our perspective. Now I realize actually being John Smith is the natural state that doesn't require effort. What really required an effort was identifying ourself with King Leia's experience. Although we had become so accustomed to making that effort, we no longer realized it was an effort. But more and more we begin to feel that being John Smith being being our being or being the presence of awareness is just unnatural condition. So less and less effort is required as time goes on. But if if we need and and if we need to make the effort, then we should make the effort. And I I I know this is not what you're saying, but we shouldn't say, "Oh, being John Smith is ultimately effortlessly, therefore, I'm not going to make an effort." If you're if you're if you feel you are King Leah and you don't make an effort, you're just going to stay suffering. So if you feel you are king there then make the effort whatever effort you need to make to trace your way back to John Smith to your true nature and only when you can remain there effortlessly do you cease making an effort. Okay, last question. When you're up there, are you John Smith or King Leer? >> Because Because I >> I'm I'm John Smith thoroughly enjoying playing King Leer. [laughter]