Shefali Tsabary and Vishen Lakhiani on Conscious Parenting

the reason why we belong to these countries and we go into war is because we were raised unconsciously but no one seems to be learning lessons from the past the woman Oprah called revolutionary and life-changing the astounding Dr shaali her name is Dr shaali Dr shaali Dr chaali defy the tide because the most dangerous thing is just going with the tide America has not done it's reparative healing work till today and therefore the blood that stained the the backs of the oppress will still run through and ink the stories it tells of its future that's a that's a very powerful statement what would you like to see America do to heal that part of its Soul the first thing America should do is we have two brilliant mind serving um as their greatness today we have Vision Lani and Dr shaali Dr shafali is known as a conscious parenting expert she's about to give her presentation tomorrow and dive deeper into parenting our kids and today uh she is going to sit down with vision for thought-provoking chat Dr chaali is known as a bestselling author she has four books three bestsellers she's all also just launch her new podcast parentin and now and we are so happy to have her at M Valley Stage welcome thank you thank you thank you and uh let's welcome uh Vision back on stage yeah hi shafali hello hello I'm excited to be here can I call you shafali or I have to call you doctor just call me shafali okay I know you want to call me far you know worst thing so just let's let's settle with shaali I will be so honored the interviews between me and Dr shaali are known for strange forms of passive aggressive joking that we have with each other from Vision to me yes yes right it's okay when people feel insecure when they are in this in the midst and in the presence of you know people who are smarter it's it's it's tough so we're going to have a lot of compassion and um and cheer cheer him on thank you guys I need your support I told you he can be passive aggressive this lady is fierce are you attending the jungle party tonight you should just come as yourself that's the plan see I don't even have to dress up wild as I am okay so so seriously congratulations seriously um shafali is an expert in many things uh from parenting to evolutionary uh woman to um making fun of me but where would you like what would you like to talk about today I would like to talk about how this is completely unscripted I had no idea he's going to ask me to tell him what we're going to talk about but I think what I would like to talk about because it's at the core of most of what I teach is how not to go on the ride of the Matrix how to resist just flying off with the current trends how to find a way to stay grounded without following the maddening crowd I think that could be a key piece of what we could weave into all what we talk about thank you and and I love that topic So when you say the Matrix what do you mean by that well to put it simply I think that culture has a mainstream Trend and for me that Trend typically is pivoted and directed toward domination competition materialism uh a dogmatic greed separation and it sets up a dynamic where those who are hungry for that win and those who want to live another way of life can't and so that's what I would refer to as the Matrix these trends that go towards acute greed and capitalism and domination and and achievement and competition and and separation of of us as humans against each other leaving other ways of being invisible or suppressed what are some some examples you're seeing in the world right now where you feel the Matrix is really poking us I know tomorrow you have an AI Summit so I don't want to talk to much about that but to me personally uh trends like that you know 10 years ago we didn't know how pernicious and treacherous social media would be for its children mhm and here we are now and it's hard to backtrack I feel that we are at that precipice for this AI wave and we're not seeing and learning from the lessons we just discovered and should have learned and we aren't pressing the pause and we're going with the tidal wave of this Matrix to the same direction that I just talked about which will end up in extreme separation competition and uh a real dis integration of what it means to be human I mean I I guess you're really right there because culture is changing at a crazy rapid Pace I mean when we think about culture we think about okay there is this um the religious culture how you pray When you pray there is our our um our respective National culture and the foods we eat then you look at social media and that is part of culture the fact that it's not just Americans who spend 2 hours a day on social media it's people all around the developed World 5 billion people with access to the internet and they spend more time on social media than they do on eating their national food on their own way of life and we are only beginning to realize that while there are good things about social media there are bad things for example teenage suicide is up 300% especially among young teenage girls right but even just what you just said you you referred to religion and nationalism and then social media all those three institutions are designed for the same thing which ultimately at its core bring about separation between each other nationalism you know any ISM even if you if you're patriotic you're patriotic to your ideals set forth by your geographical location your country sounds like a wonderful ideal but it creates separation because if someone else attacks your nationalist identity you then want to protect it similarly with religion again creates domination separation hierarchy between us spits us against each other and now social media does the same thing social media is just one more resonance and echo of the same institutions that have been for eons creating separation between us humans social media is at its Pinnacle um of creating comparison it's a comparison culture that it creates and AI is taking that one iteration thousand iterations even further to create again not just separation not just comparison but what I believe isolation and therefore a a multitude of emotional repercussions that we aren't being wise enough to harness back and pull back right now we are at we're already too late but at least we at the starting point of this tidle wave but no one seems to be learning lessons from the past we are inviting it we're celebrating it we're extoling it and we're just going with it and this is how we are part of culture culture is not this evil entity out there it's us we are participating we are colluding we are co-creating it right now and then 10 years later like we are doing with social media and seeing its effects on our children we're going to be like oh why didn't we stop it because people like us back then were like oh this is the greatest thing since slic bread and we went with it we're doing the same thing and and so the core of what I teach in conscious parenting as an example because conscious parenting so goes against the tide so goes against the Matrix that when I wrote my first book people told me like I was crazy like no one's going to read this book no one cares you're going against a a Holy Grail the Holy Grail of parenting which was to keep the parent at the pedestal and I was attacking that and people cautioned me but I didn't listen and in the same way you know I speak up now about things like Ai and social media because these are just the current institutions that we idolize these are the new gods of today the technological Gods but these are just different iterations of other institutions gone by that promoted at their core deep separation between human beings I think what you're saying is is is is really true you got me thinking as well you know they say our beliefs create our reality well social media now creates your beliefs because the way the AI algorithms work is that they need to get you hooked on scrolling through Instagram so if you look at Tik Tok whatever is your political view on Tik Tok Tik Tok will reinforce your political view and Facebook and Instagram and Linkedin do the same thing if there's a war and there's site a and site B and you're on site B and you're watching videos about why site B is right what you you will see on Tik Tok is more about why site B is right and so you become convinced that site b or your site is correct and the other side they are wrong they're evil they're bad and so in a way social media while Mark Zuckerberg might want to think it's bringing the world together it's actually in a way dividing us even more 100% And we can't blame him because again we are ready willing able participants on a moment by moment basis and therefore in communities like this it behooves us that here too we have an other side that not everyone just jumps on whatever the bandwagon of the person on the pulpit is that we challenge that we question that we defy that we Rebel because that makes a healthy learning environment so here too at mine Valley the people on the stage are not the Holy Grail either I mean no offense to either of us but we should defy the tide because the most dangerous thing is just going with the tide and so the new tide today is AI and for me personally you know I what's the polite way of saying it I mean it is just Gastly it's it's a travesty if we just go on it thinking it's the next medication when actually we will find out just like we did with social media that it was the toxicity that we would we should have protected ourselves and our children from I would say I partially agree partially disagree I think when we look at Ai and how it's influencing the algorithms of social media AI is not optimizing for our well-being no it's optimizing for The Advertiser and the more it optimizes for the advertiser The More The Advertiser pays mattera and so the Richer meta and Tik Tok their bank accounts become right and so the more you get hooked on why your side is right the more you are doom scrawling and the more you end up seeing ads and the more you end up buying the so that's an example of bad uses of AI and and and the crazy thing about that is that you know y har recently gave an interview and he said we no longer fight Wars for land or for water we fight Wars for Magical imaginary stories Israel and Gaza are two people with a lot in common they are fighting each other because of crazy stories that they believe from thousands of well it's for what you just said same with India and Pakistan same with Russia and Ukraine right but for what you said religion and nationalism right so through propaganda so it's exactly what we just started with that these institutions do nothing but cause separation and they do it through a very compelling way of creating uh a doomsday mentality that if you don't get on the wave you will be left behind and that is our greatest fear as humans that we don't want to be left behind it it challenges a primal fear that we have that we want to be part we want to belong we want to be with the trend we want to be with culture and culture uses that to propagate itself so therefore it takes humans who are strong from within to not follow the tide like stray sheep to the slaughterous so how do we uncult ourselves it's really easy if you understand how dysfunctional culture really is once you understand its lies and its Illusions which I'll talk more about tomorrow uh in my talk on stage but once you uncover how dysfunctional culture is once you can see it for its greed capitalism domination hierarchical separation and oppression of of the earth and its animals and it's weak and it's brown you will not follow culture the reason we follow culture and we are beguiled by it is because we haven't done the inner work to deconstruct its pernicious toxicity once you see that this is a flammable liquid about to devour you you won't even bother with it you won't be seduced by it we are seduced because we are still asleep and we are drinking the Kool-Aid so how you un culture is to debunk it to defy it to provoke it to challenge it but there are good things about culture right and how do we how do we separate the good from the bad how because I mean at the same time I'm in Estonia because I wanted my kids to have an Estonian education I wanted them to speak the language uh of their Heritage I wanted them to to be able to appreciate the culture and I always said I I wanted them to be in Estonia because I didn't want them to be like Americans America did nothing wrong with American culture I'm more in terms of American culture I only speak English I pretty much only read English books watch American shows um but I don't have a tie to my own culture and I wanted my kids to have a tie to their own culture and so there are good things about culture otherwise you end up being part of this Global Collective with no identity don't you right but understand what you're saying you did not grow up feeling that you belonged so and this is what we parents do so to compensate you're like I'm going to give my children that which I miss you've decided that a nationalist identity of being Estonian is a better than American and I may have to agree but but it's still it's still an identity and you've decided because you felt untethered in This Global community that that is better so you've given a value judgment to this when it could be completely false you've decided because it came from your inner untethered sense growing up in my opinion what you said oh my goodness then they're going to be part of a global Collective to me that sounds like an amazing thing but to each their own however it's not whether it's good or bad it's the degree of awareness you have as to how you're making decisions culture is not good culture is not bad culture is the uncon mirror of us so you've decided that being Estonian is fantastic great but don't think arbitrarily that that's true it's just something you have placed value judgment on just to correct something I I didn't say Estonian culture is better than American culture I said American culture is sort of a global mashup of culture right and that's because of the uh I mean America's greatest export is its culture and American culture is really addictive in a good way American TV shows and Hollywood movies are amazing America is most of the internet is is in English America has a great output of books and thinkers and these are wonderful things and they are embraced everywhere and then the downside of that American culture is that you are you are part of something so big but you know most Americans when I ask them what is your heritage they can't really answer they're like I'm a little bit of this a little bit of that and they only speak one language and I thought it was wonderful to allow my kids to have a a mother tongue Estonian even though it's only spoken by a few million people to have um a connection with their land to have a connection with their food to have a connection with the culture of their great-grandparents isn't that a good thing it it is it is see it's not good or bad meaning if a person doesn't have it is that bad it's none of this really matters at the end what matters is the level of conscious connections they have with themselves and with their environment you can do it with 10 languages you can do it with one language you can do it with 10 bentes you can do it with a bicycle in the rural farms of India don't attach to the external identifications of what makes you who you are it's an internal connection and it's deep and it's embedded in how your caregivers interact with you and how you are with yourself and the Earth so it sounds like you find that you can do it best here and that's amazing but I don't think if you look at it the other way like if somebody doesn't have it that means they're lacking it's the level of Consciousness that you infuse into the environment that matters yeah I I agree with you there yeah I I will I will say and and you know because I like to talk about the other side that may not be talked about American culture for for me if somebody said what is American culture and maybe I would say it about Indian culture so it's not you know I would say that it its roots are steeped in oppression in slavery and in the blood of those who were oppressed so when you have that as the birthing of a nation that doesn't leave it was founded on the exploitation of of people who couldn't protect themselves and that to me Living in America and I live there and I love it but I see it for its invisible oppressive nature and it's still part of its fabric of its capitalism of its entrepreneurship of its industry is rooted in its foundation you will not you cannot leave our foundation and that's why I teach conscious parenting because no matter where you go to school no matter who you marry how many cars are in your driveway how many air conditionings Adorn your house and how many jewelries are in your safe it is the consciousness of your earliest foundational years that will Infuse the rest of your life unless you restore and heal those early Beginnings in the same way how cultures begin is how cultures are until you restore and heal and America has not done its reparative healing work till today and there therefore the blood that stained the the backs of the oppressed will still run through and ink the stories it tells of its future that that's a that's a very powerful statement I agree partially but I'd like to ask you so I understand because I think American culture is great recently my my son um with with encourag from me decided that he wants to go study at Stanford because he felt that an American education is what's going to make him a great entrepreneur and that's also my belief I I had an American Education I lived in the US for for almost a decade but what would you like to see America do to remove that stain yes I mean land was taken from the Native Americans yes black Americans were enslaved for almost 400 years and there's still a wide wide wide gap between whites and blacks what would you like to see America do to heal that part of its Soul the first thing America should do is that it needs to own its Blood Stained history first you have to speak it and own its role in the perpetration of millions and the decimation of millions it stole the African slaves of their Heritage it stole the Native Americans from their land so if I stole vision's phone the first thing I would need to say is I am a thief and not color it through any lens except that until it can say that there is no healing then once it's willing to own and that's for all of us in human relationships I hurt you because I was unconscious I stole your joy I took your phone I I betrayed you yes I deceived you yes I manipulated you yes I used you to to G Garner wealth for my future children and ignored the the beauty and well-being of your heritage yes I stamped on you yes I oppressed you and I didn't give a and I called it something else and I've lied I've lied to myself and to the rest of you for Generations until that kind of language is spoken by the oppressor to itself and then to its public only then can we then realize that if I have done all this now I need to go and return it in some way and people say oh it's too late and I didn't do anything that was my great great great great great grandfather no you didn't do anything now but you're living off the land now and you're earning its its rewards now so you owe it you owe it to to give back and it's it's it's at a micro level it's as simple as me going and finding the money and making it up to Vision that I took his phone and he was at a loss for the last 24 hours I owe it to him and then I owe it to myself to put myself into reparation and healing for why I would do that and then have great empathy and compassion and for the next how many ever years I will make it up in every way I can do you see any of that conversation happening inica America none of it not even a placard to say we were racist or not even a you know token thing that you may see in Australia or you may see in Germany you don't see any of that in America because it's not owned because you see to own the shadow would mean to sit with the fact that we as humans are capable fully capable of such evil right and not that we were capable that we are capable and no one wants to look in the mirror so we all pretend that America is so great and we just continue lying to each other and I and I think what you just touched on is the essential difference between patriotism and nationalism both are love of your country but nationalism says my country can do no wrong patriotism is I love my country and I recognize that it's done shitty things in the past and I'm not going to swear blind allegiance to everything my leader says the people who oppressed the Vietnam War were not nationalists they were Patriots right and of course the word Patriot on the right on the American right the false news right has been hijacked um so even that word gets gets gets um gets convulated but if you look at many countries many countries are afraid to do this I mean Russia oppressed and destroyed Estonia we have relatives on on on my children's mother's side that were murdered shot in the head because they were land owners by the Soviets Russia has never apologized for that America has you know yet to provide enough in my opinion reparations or whatever you want to call it to give black black Americans an equal footing against whites with whites Japan has not acknowledged the rape of Nan King um Israel has not acknowledged they have stolen Land from the people of Palestine and countries like France and and Mongolia honor their old conquerors Napoleon or gas Khan but these men were not conquerors they were murderers read the history why is it so important and and how do we make this shift because you can love France you can love Mongolia you can love you can love the us but how do we make the shift that maybe the Germans made I think the Germans are the only country I can think of right now off the top of my head that actually truly acknowledged their past and said we really really really messed up and we are sorry how do we get other people to step up this way the reason why that's really difficult to answer is because so it as people like so you and I are like let's go get people to change and I'll be like fall back like don't even waste your time because because and not that we shouldn't be activists and not that we shouldn't have these pivotal crucial comp you know conversations and and bring things to light but don't have the illusion that that's how people are going to change yes it does take a movement and sadly only the oppressed can change things sadly why because the oppressor will never they're too comfortable so yes movements are crucial that's the only way things do change but it's not easy as getting it done right it's not like a a 1 2 3 it takes decades and eons and Mahatma Gandhi and Nelson mandelas and Martin Luther Kings to die and for us to forget about them and we repeat the same history what's happening now in Gaza and Israel is a repetition of traumas unhealed so if we have to get anything to be done we first needs need to go against the tide we need to go against the mainstream we need to not go with the populist view which is comfortable and easy we need to speak up against any ISM all these are isms right and and what the oppressor does in turn is will they will say oh you are anti-semitic or you are anti-patriotic right it's smart it's a reversal of of of the role so that it obscures reality so then you feel scared and you fall back so speaking up the unpopular the uncomfortable truth over and over until there's a tidal wave of change um is the only way but you see like Mother Teresa said do you will not catch me in an anti-war rally you will catch me in the Pro piece so don't go to the Donald Trumps and the oppressor because they are already blind deaf numb zombie like and only uh you know deluded by greed don't go there don't waste your time changing them join forces with others who are conscious and enlightened and activate them into a mass movement so that this the oppressed will rise strong it all change comes from the oppressed women shouldn't wait for men to change we have to change brown people shouldn't wait for white people to give them permission and freedoms we have to harness our strength and our courage together so never wait for the other especially the one in power to give you your freedom you have to collect yourselves and your sisters and your brothers together uh to activate change so instead of focusing on getting them to change go with people who are like-minded and conscious like you and and rise up and raise that vibration louder thank you shabal so there a that's an interesting model framework of of understanding the world from K Wilbur Who Um has a program in mind they call um integral Vision so Ken Wilbert say that 70% of the world population is since around 70% is ethnocentric and ethnocentric means my religion my culture my nationality is Right 30% is worldcentric 30% says hey you know I may have a religion I may have a nationality but I really belong to the world and I'm not going to fight a war against someone else just because they have a different religion I see through Mr politician and worldcentric is a different stage of Being Human it's an evolutionary stage but it doesn't happen overnight it can take decades for someone to change if even decades I think I stepped into World centrism slowly I think it's because I went to an international school so I met people from all around the world but I think one of the things that really got me thinking about it was a quote by Nel by by Gandhi and this quote made me decide I was no longer going to be a Hindu so the quote was was that Gandhi said I'm a Hindu and I'm a Muslim and I'm a Christian and I'm a Jew and that quot takes a while to process but what he was saying is I don't belong to care what religion you belong to like I respect all religions I'm simply one of you and I will not fight for my religion over your religion Gandhi was really upset when India was split into the Hindu India and Muslim Pakistan I mean that war a million people died and that quote really made me wake up and so I told my dad and my mom when I was 19 years old I'm no longer and I still have lots of beautiful things about the Hindu culture that I I love I mean meditation yoga they all came from Hinduism but I refuse to have a religion and I refuse to have a nationality I currently am getting my third passport and I have residency in three countries but it takes a while well I think that the reason why people become ethnocentric and the PE reason why people join a cult or a religion or a Congregation of faith is because when they were raised they were raised to identify with these things as if those things made up the self and that's why I teach conscious parenting because it's not about my the child that I teach I teach parents to divorce themselves from external labels so that they teach their children to belong to themselves and the reason why we belong to these tribes these countries and we go into war for the holy land or whatever we have in our mind is because we were raised unconsciously and that's why I teach conscious parenting because I believe it is the consciousness of the parent that defines the evolution of the future if what is going into the child's mind is a whole load of pollution and contamination then you will get the racist sexist agist ethnocentric adult who will spill blood because they were taught that this is who it is they are like you said I'm not a Hindu you were never a Hindu it was put on You by others who thought they were Hindu but it was put on them there is no such thing as someone born a Hindu you become a Hindu because of what people tell you you are so you were very you know you went through this whole process although it was quite unnecessary to Dethrone yourself of Hinduism but that should have never been put on you in the first place right so this is what evolution sadly is about and you're right it takes time sadly we're wasting time because all we're doing is taking out all the labels of that were put on us that should never have been put on us in the first place so I'm saving parents so much time I'm like don't spend all this money on future therapy just listen to me now so your kid your kid doesn't have to go to mine Valley and spend all your money at M Valley University taking out taking out labels that you shouldn't put on them so my my mission and message in conscious parenting is not about like oh you know coochie coing with your child and take them on a date and what is the good thing to say to your child to eat their green beans I'm like f all that I care about what sh you're putting into their mind so that later in life they're not taking it off that's all that's what we all doing here taking off all the layers of crap that they put on us the emotional inheritance from childhood which was so unnecessary but here that's what our life is all about undoing all of that so the trumps and the netan of this world they're just fully indoctrinated by what they were put that was put into their mind as as children they were just tethered and taken like little robots and dummies to this way of thinking so we have compassion for that we understand that and now we think strategically how do I debunk that I don't debunk it by saying I hate you cuz that's not going to do anything we debunk it by rising in Consciousness and we the opposition is not opposing netan or the trumps or the putins the opposition is opposing the unconsciousness and that's why a rise in Consciousness which will take eons is the only way but saying I hate you and fighting with them in the war of today does nothing for the tomorrow it is only the tidal wave of Consciousness that will erode the unconsciousness in the world and this tidal wave of AI That's Coming is another tidle wave of potential unconsciousness the good of AI to me and this is just me a fool here is such a sliver compared to the downsides just like social media we were like it can do this and it can do that and can it did none of that it did none of that it made what was unconscious within us more unconscious why would AI be different let's not be seduced in a naive optimism that we're going to use AI consciously we have never used anything consciously we don't even use marriage consciously we don't even use parenting consciously if we cannot even parent our children consciously you think we're going to do anything else consciously yes I disagree with you there okay go ahead so because he has to be different Vision has to be different no because I disagree with you okay go ahead so so firstly already that we have gone from 70% ethnocentric to 30 % World Centric and that start by the way is from 20 years ago it's increasing I'd say now we are about 35 40% World Centric and it's increasing with every generation there is a a measurement um that's being used and it's called Enlightenment values and Enlightenment values looks at how cultures and countries how they support Concepts such as women's rights um uh transparency in government the um uh LGBT rights religious freedom and so on and what we are seeing across the world is that overwhelmingly across the world people are becoming more and more and more open and Progressive so for example one of the most common beliefs that westernness have about the Muslim world is that it is backward in terms of values if you actually look at the enlightenment scale the enlightenment value scale of I'm talking about average you group Egypt and Morocco and Saudi Arabia in terms of Enlightenment values they are actually right as of 2017 at the same level as France of 1970 Now France of 1970 was France of Bridget BAU it was sexy it was it was dicey it was incredible but that's where the Islamic world is today and it's increasing it's increasing to the point where by 2030 if you actually continue drawing the lines the Islamic world is going to be as open to LGBT values to women's rights to as the US possibly in 1995 to 2000 and even in the US it's changing in 1991 a survey of Americans found that 54% of Americans felt that marriage between a black and a white was wrong right now it's 4% so wherever we look people are becoming more enlightened we are shedding the shackles of blind allegiance to religion ethnicity and culture the only place where we see these these this tightening is places that go go through trauma and where the leader isn't wise enough and the leader is more backward thinking and the leader labels that trauma as an attack from the other that's what Netanyahu has done with Israel Israelis are becoming more racist that's what Putin has done with Russia Russians are becoming increasingly racist towards ukrainians this is not the people these people actually need saving these leaders are awful cor corrupt and like you said they they have gone through their own trauma right I don't want to use the word evil but people like Netanyahu and Putin are rightfully on the are rightfully charged by the world Criminal Court as criminals because they are the greatest harm they're doing are to their own people but what we need to do is be very alert that as human beings we can get swayed by leaders and leaders that are populist and leaders that use the excuse of the other that is the one thing if you pay attention to that one thing is your leader blaming other people for your misery whether it's a leader on the left or it's a leader on the right if your leader is blaming other people Your Leader is tapping into a primal Basic Instinct between uh inherent to all of us that says we're under attack fight and that's when things get really screwed up you want to know who to vote for don't vote for the person who's blaming another and so I don't care if you vote for Biden or Trump but when Trump says Blame the Mexicans blame the Muslims blame this you already know he's unfit to lead and the same would be true to any leader on the left who said the same thing pay attention to your Leader's words the worst the the one clue that frees you is are they blaming the other if you recognize that you recognize a charlatan from a true leader true leaders unite think about think about Nelson Mandela he said I forgave my jailers the people who jailed him for 27 years he invited them to break bread with him think about Martin Luther King think about Gandhi all of these great leaders chose to see beyond any type of illusory human boundary and they were uniters vote for uniters reject separators very good you know you said you disagreed but you tell me more like it's except for that Enlightenment scale because there's so many scales that we are deteriorating in I disagree with where you said it's going to take eons I predict it's going to take 50 years oh for what Consciousness to rise 50 years 50 years so so there's a a a concept that I coin called The 50-year Blind Side right we know who we are as human beings right now and we are awfully bad at predicting the future think about this 1945 France has been France and Germany have been at War completely devastated you ask the average French person and the average German person in 50 years do you think we'll be friends they'll probably go no what those Nazis did to us is horrible 50 years later you have the European Union you don't even need a passport to go between France and Germany 1963 Sammy Davis Jr was banned from coming to the White House because as a black musician he dared to marry the white woman JFK who was a progressive leader Uninvited Sammy Davis Jr from the White House 50 years later Obama is in the white house and then Trump so it's it's a cycle human being it's not but it's not a straight line it's not a no one says it's a straight line like you know like the stock market things go up and down and up and down and up and down we do take a few steps backward but over the long term we are moving forward as a species it's not going to take eons 50 years from now the world is going to be different so I'll tell you something else I believe 50 years from now the majority of human beings will we're going to see unifications of countries Charles Darwin predicted this in 1873 he said we're going to be moving towards what you see is the European Union is going to Encompass the entire planet borders are going to disappear it sounds crazy right now but that's because you can't see 50 years forward 50 years forward is two generations your kids are going to be so different from you and their beliefs are going to feel alien to you we can't see it but 50 years is a massive amount of time in modern human history so why can't we just agree that we can't see the future neither you nor I nor any sear because we can extrapolate okay you're extrapolating that is going to be better mhm based on what based on based on enlightenment value scales based on um the examples I gave based on the 50-year blindsight based on the idea that two generations is a long time in human history so I'm not all I'm saying is I agree with you I'm disagreeing with the timeline and with AI I also disagree with you I think it's overwhelmingly good AI is going to lead to a shortening of our work week it's going to lead to incredible productivity and because the human mind is flawed AI complimenting the human mind might actually be the tool we need to help solve global warming to help get us out of our petty allegiances to our own nationality or religion or crazy political leaders and it might actually help create a better world so that's where I I respectfully disagree we we have the same values I simply have a little bit more hope yes you do I shall leave you with her hope I think I think it's it's a beautiful thing to be an optimist but it's also to me more compelling to be a realist and to see the data on the ground right so maybe I sound like uh such a negativist Debbie Downer but I'm really not I'm just speaking to our propensity as a species to vear off the path of Consciousness we do that so easily and that's why we're undoing all these isms because we put them onto us so now we'll create a whole new set of isms that we don't even know about so not to be an alarmist but not to be a naive Optimist either to be very very aware of the principles underlying the next wave and if the principles underlying the next wave so you highlighted the good good of AI to me the principles what is driving us to find AI to find a replacement for our flawed human mind is a thirst for impermanence and Perfection and if we are driving technology because we are so flawed and we cannot accept our limitations that to me is a disaster in the making because it comes from a resistance of accepting we are decaying we are rotting we are dying we're aging and we are meant to and this resistance against nature that this is who we are as a human species freaking we're supposed to die we are supposed to live in a mess and and yes we should increase Global uh scales of well-being and poverty and we should rise in economic standards but the reasons why we are there is not because of a lack of AI the reasons we are so desperate in economy and in treatment and well-being of different uh races is because of the same principles that underly what now the AI thirst is so if we don't uncover the unconsciousness underneath we're just creating one more better-looking iteration of the same garbage that has been running the Machinery of humanity into the gutter it's the unconscious elements underneath AI underneath social media that we need to be aware of not how it looks on the surface because social media looked so amazing it was such tasty fruit fruit I bit of all its apples when it first came out and now we see that the underlying Machinery was for them to abduct our children and our minds and they've succeeded so will ai ai is not going to abduct it AI says blatantly we will replace it so then what happens to our mind because it's flawed we're meant to be flawed what happens why are we questing for this degree of perfectionism and this this dire need to be impermanent we're hacking away everything why we have to ask why and until we can confront the why but why but why do you need to live longer but why do you want to live forever but why do you want to look youthful forever but why and if you don't at least touch that is driven by an ego that wants to be here perfectly forever mhm that's a point worth pondering final question final question and then we do have to wrap up because we're out of time but do you think it is right or wrong for parents to teach their religion to their children I think it is extremely unconscious of parents to have their own attachment to a mythical unproven existence of an external never seen being and then force their children to believe in that mythical neverbe se but if we did that don't you think religion would die out in one or two generations yes then the world would be such a peaceful place a better a better place for sure religion and spirituality are not the same thing spirituality Wouldn't Die Out belief in God wouldn't die out but our crazy understanding that God operates in a certain specific way and all other ways are wrong that would probably end yes and that would be a very good thing indeed but we would replace it by something else a new God because we're good at creating new things to attach to and then obsess over and then fight over and then die over we're so good we're very bored you know we where that that's where all this is coming from like what do we do with our time let's create some more nonsense the world because our inability to be still to die to allow the death and the awareness that we will die and there's nothing anyone can do about it that is the confrontation of the truth that we are avoiding through all this distraction thank you shafali and we end here that was a great discussion thank you