What If Uncertainty Is the Practice — Pema Chödrön on Groundlessness

I used to think about Alice in Wonderland, how she just fell down that hole and she was falling and falling and she was just not grabbing for anything or anything like that. And at one point in my life, she was like a role model to me because of the fact that she she just fell and waited to see where she was going to land, you know. Welcome to a special edition of Mystics Today. A beloved teacher around the world, Pemma is the first American woman to become a fully ordained Tibetan Buddhist nun. It's very important that you feel comfortable to let go into a groundless situation. >> Now 87, she's been sharing her teachings for more than four decades through lectures interviews courses books and more. Anie Pemma's wisdom has reached millions. >> You don't have to get rid of it. You just know it. She teaches at eye level, not holding herself above us, but instead connecting, understanding, and leading with vulnerability. Anie Pemma's insights are timeless. Right now, in any moment, you can open. >> Yet, they feel tailored to today, a lifeline to help us navigate the turbulence of this time. It's rare to have an opportunity to sit down and film an interview with Pemma. And we're so grateful, it sounds true, to have this chance. In the midst of everything that's changing, we can find that which unconditionally supports us. What's required? Befriending the unknown. Honey Pemma, I want to begin by expressing my utter gratitude for this precious opportunity to be with you like this. Thank you so much for making the time. >> Oh, well, you're very welcome. to begin. You teach a lot about groundlessness and I think that many if not most if not all of us are in touch with the groundlessness of this time we're living in so much ambiguity uncertainty unpredictability and what I'd like to know from you is how can we find can we find a sense of ground in the groundless the ang the that language is interesting. Yeah. You know, because >> generally I would not use the word trying to find ground, you know. >> Yes. >> Um so maybe we could say instead trying to find some kind of equinimity. Would that work? >> That will work for sure. So I would say the way to find some kind of equinimity is to grow your capacity for for the um queasiness, the the fear, the anxiety, the the um uncomfortableness that comes along with the times we're living in. So that comes along with the feeling of groundlessness of not having anything to hold on to. So in other words, instead of trying to find something to hold on to, you uh you become more and more comfortable or more and more at home, more enable more and more able to hold um freef fall, let's call it that way, you know, like um I used to think about Alice in Wonderland, how she just fell down that hole and she was falling and falling and she was just not grabbing for anything or anything like that. And at one point in my life, she was like a role model to me because of the fact that she she just fell and waited to see where she was going to land, you know. So for all of us I think uh we we shy away from these feelings and in the process of that our ability to hold them our ability to live from that place uh diminishes and the way to become more comfortable more at ease in a shifting changing world which has always been the case actually um is to make friends with the the feelings that are evoked by nothing to hold on to. I'm curious to know in your experience, the more time you've spent coming closer and closer to queasiness, to use that word. >> Yeah. >> Does it change? It's not really queasy anymore. Is it something else? That's a good question. Well, let's say um uh less and less things evoke queasiness. You know, in other words, your capacity is growing. So, uh what used to be, uh cause fear, what used to cause um panic and anxiety doesn't. But on the other hand, that's not to say that it never comes up because there's always your edge. You know, I think until you die, until full enlightenment, whatever, there's always some kind of edge that you haven't quite reached yet or something. So, ideally, you know, in the course of your life, you want to reach all those edges so that the feeling of completely at home in your body, completely home in this world, in all situations uh increases. So in this case, you know, I think that I of course have haven't I have my edges. So when I reach them and the queasy feeling happens, it's almost like um wakeup bell going off or something like that. It's almost like a reminder to open and be receptive instead of um reacting. You know, there's this thing about what is it? not reacting but >> responding. >> Responding. Yeah. So it's really that kind of distinction. So the queasiness comes or the anxiety comes or just the tightening comes and then that's like a uh a reminder. It's almost like wonderful. Oh great, you know la this is happening. You know I can I here's I can work with this. I can train with this. So, I wouldn't say the feeling of dread doesn't happen. I'd say that it does happen, but my response to it is not reactivity, but to wake up further. And uh I'm this is, you know, you don't want to brag in life. Sure, of course, >> because you never know what's coming next. But I would say uh no matter how far you get into it, there's always the opportunity to just pause and reflect and shift from um contracted to more expansive. I mean, I tell people, go to your body, full embodiment, and just find the place where the terror is happening. find the place where the um dread is happening. Um that the the kind of place that's triggering all the uh habitual patterns of running away, of closing down, of saying no, no, no, you know, of not dealing. go to that place and there's some kind of I don't know you you do feel something physical definitely and people can often point to it you know and then the idea is to um I don't know have a f feeling of tenderness warmth extended to that very feeling like friend making friends with that feeling like uh I like the word tenderness I use it a But it's like a okay. It's okay.